KMeloney
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You going to consider the Carbyte instead?
DFM disabler released
- Thread starter 66 Galaxie
- Start date
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That’s how my afm in my Vette worked. What year is your Rig?
I’ll run the L9 for now. I’ll see how that works and sounds after I get my Flowmaster 40 installed on 1/6/25.
Carbyte would be another option I’m still considering.
Some solid lifters, a nice cam, and the ecm from my 03 Silverado would make for a setup that could easily clock 300k miles. Chevy should have stayed away from the deactivation trash. I’ll keep a warranty on it and keep my fingers crossed while I keep fresh, clean oil in it.
fondupot
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2021 5.3L L84
DontTaseMeBro
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So Range is out. Is Carbyte still a go to buy?
I don't understand why the range is out. Sounds like testing has shown it disables DFM all the time. The whole thing about 0 cylinder mode looks like it was made up or misunderstood. There is no such thing. Why would they close all valves when the fuel is already shut off. Seems 0 cylinder just means the fuel is shut off while valves operate normally. If carbyte really disables fuel shut off that would be a bad feature that would make you have to brake more when slowing down, which is what some people claim it does. Sounds like range is better.
Antonm
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The range unit also collapses all the lifters during zero cylinder mode,,, which the one thing most people wanted is to just stop the lifters from ever collapsing.
One can argue semantics that zero cylinder lifter deactivation is not part of DFM and is a completely separate thing,,, sure, whatever, alright.
But there will still be times the PCM commands the lifters to collapse/ de-activate the cylinders with the range unit installed. Holley/ Sentinel Capital partners now have a disqualifying statement on their website, below is a copy/paste of this disclaimer from their website (this little disclaimer was not there when they first started selling these BTW)
NOTE: Some vehicles may still engage 0-cylinder mode while coasting with this product installed. During extensive testing, it was found that completely disabling this function led to undesirable driving conditions and safety concerns. Disabling 0-cylinder mode while coasting resulted in a notable decrease in fuel efficiency, with a loss of 2-3 MPG, as the engine continues to fuel and fire the injectors even during coasting. This fueling also creates an unsettling sensation during deceleration, as it feels like the vehicle is still accelerating slightly, despite 0% throttle input. This requires harder braking, especially in scenarios like towing or descending a long grade, leading to undesirable driving conditions.
So long story short, Holley/ Sentinel Capital partners knew they weren't delivering what they claimed and did so intentionally. Most likely because they assume most of their customer don't know what they want and will be upset if they actually got what they asked for,,, which is all cylinders all the time, because in their opinion, that would cause "undesirable driving conditions".
Holley is no longer an automotive performance company, its now Sentinel Capital partners, so the business model has shifted from making aftermarket automotive performance parts, to making money for the stock holders.
...
One can argue semantics that zero cylinder lifter deactivation is not part of DFM and is a completely separate thing,,, sure, whatever, alright.
But there will still be times the PCM commands the lifters to collapse/ de-activate the cylinders with the range unit installed. Holley/ Sentinel Capital partners now have a disqualifying statement on their website, below is a copy/paste of this disclaimer from their website (this little disclaimer was not there when they first started selling these BTW)
NOTE: Some vehicles may still engage 0-cylinder mode while coasting with this product installed. During extensive testing, it was found that completely disabling this function led to undesirable driving conditions and safety concerns. Disabling 0-cylinder mode while coasting resulted in a notable decrease in fuel efficiency, with a loss of 2-3 MPG, as the engine continues to fuel and fire the injectors even during coasting. This fueling also creates an unsettling sensation during deceleration, as it feels like the vehicle is still accelerating slightly, despite 0% throttle input. This requires harder braking, especially in scenarios like towing or descending a long grade, leading to undesirable driving conditions.
So long story short, Holley/ Sentinel Capital partners knew they weren't delivering what they claimed and did so intentionally. Most likely because they assume most of their customer don't know what they want and will be upset if they actually got what they asked for,,, which is all cylinders all the time, because in their opinion, that would cause "undesirable driving conditions".
Holley is no longer an automotive performance company, its now Sentinel Capital partners, so the business model has shifted from making aftermarket automotive performance parts, to making money for the stock holders.
...
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fondupot
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My scanner says otherwise. DFM does not activate anymore ever. Not once.
Marky Dissod
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NOTE: Apparently your vehicle is not 'some vehicles'.
'Some vehicles' cannot speak for 'all vehicles'.
Antonm
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Guess that's why the Range disclaimer statement (full disclaimer statement copy/pasted from their website in my post above) says "Some vehicles"
Not sure what differentiates "some vehicles" from others, but my High Country and a video I saw of one an an Escalade, both of those were "some vehicle" and the lifters do collapse on zero cylinder.
I wonder if its a 6.2 vs. 5.3 thing? Your truck where the scanner says otherwise, is it a 5.3 or 6.2?
...
fondupot
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How do you know? Just by sound? I can hear 0-cylinder mode subtly with my stock exhaust on my 5.3. But the scanner is not showing any DFM being activated. Its just the fuel being shut off to the cylinder.
I'm not gonna argue it anymore in these threads, people can make their own decisions, but my experience with the Range unit in my 2021 Yukon 5.3 has been great. Makes the truck so much better to drive.
Both range and carbyte confirm that during 0 cylinder coasting, the valves remain closed via the collapsible lifters. Range emphasizes this is not Dfm, I’m assuming this means the Dfm program is not commanding the lifters in coast mode, something else is. I wonder if this is why fondupot doesn’t show the lifters are keeping the valves closed, because Dfm hasn’t commanded it. Not sure what the scan tool looks at.
I wish there was a gm insider who was intimately familiar with Dfm logic and collapsible lifter use and trigger. I wish range or carbyte would jump in, they should know what is triggered by what.
I wish there was a gm insider who was intimately familiar with Dfm logic and collapsible lifter use and trigger. I wish range or carbyte would jump in, they should know what is triggered by what.
Marky Dissod
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Now that GM is making these ecms far more confounding to 'crack', and more complicated to tune once cracked,
it is very likely that Range and CarByte do not have a full understanding of every possible parameter or combo of parameters responsible for triggering which possible types of cylinder valve deactivation.
GM obviously decided, in some cases, better to keep the engine coupled to the geartrain and trap air in all cylinders,
than to not use this 'feature' and 'go into neutral' until the driver touched the go-pedal again,
likely because of the very reason Range cited - a consistently measurable MpG penalty.
Hey, at least it works for 'some vehicles', but it still sucks that it does not work for ALL.
It'd be interesting if, in the near future,
the vehicles that insist on 'V-naughty mode' are penalized in the used car market for their obstinacy,
while those that allow total disablement of this feature do slightly better in the used car market.
it is very likely that Range and CarByte do not have a full understanding of every possible parameter or combo of parameters responsible for triggering which possible types of cylinder valve deactivation.
GM obviously decided, in some cases, better to keep the engine coupled to the geartrain and trap air in all cylinders,
than to not use this 'feature' and 'go into neutral' until the driver touched the go-pedal again,
likely because of the very reason Range cited - a consistently measurable MpG penalty.
Hey, at least it works for 'some vehicles', but it still sucks that it does not work for ALL.
It'd be interesting if, in the near future,
the vehicles that insist on 'V-naughty mode' are penalized in the used car market for their obstinacy,
while those that allow total disablement of this feature do slightly better in the used car market.
DontTaseMeBro
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A question of those who have the Carbyte. Does the app show when DFM is disabled real time? Cause I really want to know if it’s working. As mentioned before, prior to installing mine, I could not tell when DFM would kick on in my 2022 Yukon w/6.2 leading me to wonder if it was disabled from the factory(window sticker makes no mention)?
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Now that GM is making these ecms far more confounding to 'crack', and more complicated to tune once cracked,
it is very likely that Range and CarByte do not have a full understanding of every possible parameter or combo of parameters responsible for triggering which possible types of cylinder valve deactivation.
I agree complety.
I have both range and carbyte. The Dfm deactivation of both products is well worth the purchase. I find I’m leaning more to range, I do like the higher rate of deceleration with it. Still activating the collapsing lifters but not as much. Maybe that’ll help get me through the life of the rig without failure?
it is very likely that Range and CarByte do not have a full understanding of every possible parameter or combo of parameters responsible for triggering which possible types of cylinder valve deactivation.
I agree complety.
I have both range and carbyte. The Dfm deactivation of both products is well worth the purchase. I find I’m leaning more to range, I do like the higher rate of deceleration with it. Still activating the collapsing lifters but not as much. Maybe that’ll help get me through the life of the rig without failure?
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Marky Dissod
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Not like it used to be - on top of inflation, you don't even get what you used to get without a longwinded disclaimer after the asterisk.
Define 'maybe', then define 'get me through', then define 'the life of the rig' ... think we all know what 'that' and 'failure' means ...
Best bet to both extend 'the life of the rig', and delay 'failure' -
delay it long enough, you might even get away with calling it a non-failure and selling it to the person whom it will fail -
is to change oil every 5000 miles OR LESS.
Actually I believe you, but for the sake of objectivity you had mentioned something earlier about maybe posting some screencaps of the scanner data.. is this still a possibility? So for the believers and nonbelievers alike, It would be great undisputable evidence of the Range’s ability to totally disable DFM.
At that point, the next mystery would be to figure out what constitutes “some vehicles”… possibly cryptic language suggesting 5.3 get full DFM disable but the 6.2 don’t.. dunno… verdict’s still out on that part……
fondupot
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Yea, I'm trying to get around to it. Between the holidays, an 8 month old, a pregnant wife, full time job that requires travel and a part time YouTube channel host job, household repairs and projects...I tend to get a little bogged down.
I found more interesting info. Tula skip fire does close valves under deceleration, which they refer to cylinder deactivation or deceleration cylinder cut off (DCCO). The closed cylinders actually reduce engine braking. So if range has more engine braking then it is probably keeping more cylinders active then carbyte. Unless carbyte is not cutting fuel, which is unlikely. Cutting fuel is deceleration fuel cut off (DCFO) that has been brought up before.
The closed cylinder acts like a spring bouncing up and down with less braking then the normal valve operation which pumps air. The problem with pumping air during DFCO is the cat gets too cool. So they have to fuel and fire cylinders or go into DCCO operation which doesn't pump air.
Just because Tula has this logic control, we don't know what part of Tula's skip fire GM is implementing. Maybe 5.3 doesn't use DCCO but 6.2 does because somehow the bigger engine gets the same mpg rating.
Its also more correct to call this DCCO. Its not really 0 cylinders constantly. The controller will choose any number of cylinders to deactivate.
