Rear Mounted turbo - 2014 GMC Yukon XL (5.3L)

[EnigmaMan]

So after looking around and doing some digging I wanted to produce more power with this 5.3L that is in my Yukon XL and dont want to drop $6K + For the edelbrock supercharger system out of the box and keep it to $1,000 or less.

I have been doing a ton of research on rear mount turbo setups and it has been done successfully on other applications and with the Yukon body there is a ton of room to setup something like this for this application. My plans are a low boost 3-5 PSI with out changing engine internals etc.

Goals are to:
- use factory headers and cross pipe
- install the turbo under the 2nd / 3rd row on the passenger side (shown below)
- Remove the requirements of needing an inter cooler because of distance from the engine bay
- Cooler turbo temperatures

I am not wanting to make 800hp, rebuild the transmission, etc.

I can pickup a turbo for $179, piping (exhaust, intake) $200 and ECU Upgrade $400?? Boost controller etc. I could be much further ahead of the game and open up the doors for others to upgrade their Yukons to get a little more umph out of it with realistic explications of an extra +/- 80hp?

Questions -
1. Would a T3/T4 hybrid turbo be enough for a low boost application with minimal turbo lag?
T04E T3/T4 4-Bolt Manifold Flange Stage III Universal Turbocharger+Oil Feed+Drain Line Turbine A/R .63 $179 on Amazon

2. From my estimations a 2.5-3" Intake pipe should be enough to route to the front engine compartment
3. What ECU programmer supports boost maps?
4. Would I need a new MAF to support boost?

I'll prob end up getting flamed for asking these questions / suggesting these parts, but hey learning in a boosted world, you have to start somewhere!

I familiar with frankenstining GM parts together - with an Olds Cutlass that I have and making them work!


Thanks in advance!!

Example of setup would look something like this

 

[sumo]

I thought about this once but I live in New England. The winter and salt would destroy this setup. I'm happy with my Maggie 1900 tsv. It complete, tunes included and worry free of making parts work or finding a tune that would work with custom setup

 

[EnigmaMan]

True, but it would be easy to create a plate to protect it underneath. I live here in FL and do the really have to worry about that. We are still suffering from a severe snow drought and not really sure when / if we will ever get out next storm

There are some challenges with doing this kind of setup, but there are ways to overcome the one you mentioned.

Biggest unknowns for me are the ones mentioned above.

 

[Jason_S]

A 'canned' type tune that you would get from most programmers would only be good enough to get you to a dyno/real tuner.

No offense, but you clearly need to do more reading and researching. Your questions have been answered countless times before. Google is your friend.

 

[EnigmaMan]

Google will only get you so far from theoretical to practical application.

I was hoping to get at least some useful information like:
Hey the turbo is too small... try something like this ***
You will need a custom tune and that is $$$$$$
Stock injectors wont work for your requirements... etc etc

This way I could have a starting point to start doing research and go from there.

When launching a project you need to define the scope of work, expectations and bounce ideas off of others in order to successfully deliver the project.
In this case, this may not be the correct forum to do this on and I will have to go elsewhere to figure this out.

 

[quest51210]

@EnigmaMan please let me know where you go if you get shot down here. alot of folks don't like to go outside the box here, but I have been wondering the same things you have, although I don't have much experience in this particular area, I am always up for learning something new.

 

[gat0r]

never researched this setup, but quite a few peeps in my area w/ similar setups.
you will lose 1-2 #'s of boost w/ this setup, but still get pretty good power. spooling up boost will be slow.


check out performancetrucks.net
the 'forced induction' subforum

most peeps will start w/ rear setup & then eventually save up & move it up front for more power & faster spool

 

[Jason_S]

With respect to this forum and all of the knowledgable folks here, this is the last place that I would look for info on forced induction LS series engines.

Determine the power that you want to make. You may find that heads, cam, intake and exhaust will get you there, especially if you are not wanting to do much to the rest of the driveline.

Yes, with a forced induction setup, you are looking at time on a dyno. Unless you like rebuilding/replacing engines. You should be able to find a 'canned' tune that will work well enough to get you to the dyno. Personally, we've always over-ridden the waste gate so that it stayed open until we could get it tuned.

If you have the flex fuel engine, your injectors should be able to keep up. Until you decide that you need more "powah!". Your fuel pump will be your limiting factor for fueling.

MAF depends. Some setups keep it, others remove it altogether. Either is possible and works. Some tuners prefer one over the other and will recommend the one they prefer.

A remote setup, will give you turbo lag. The farther you move it from the intake, the more pronounced it will become. That it is a V8 may mitigate it to an extent. The smaller turbo will spool sooner and also mitigate that, but first thoughts on the t3/4, that you linked, is that it is too small for a single turbo setup on a V8.

 

[EnigmaMan]

Thanks for the heads up and the great information that should get me started and moving forward...
I was thinking that due to the e85 injectors it might be able to compensate for the extra "Powa!!" from the turbo's
I remember I had an Edge / Juice tuner on my 2500 Duramax diesel that plugged inline into the ECU and provided all the stats / information along with alerts and warnings etc. Does somebody make that for the this motor / application?

Mustang stock 302 with $150 ebay turbos

Price: US $139.99

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T04E-T3-T4-...GER-/151273866936?vxp=mtr&hash=item2338a006b8


DNA Motor Inc.
Compressor A/R: 0.48 Manufacturer Part Number:
DNA TBCT04E63SQ
Compressor Inducer / Exducer (mm: 50.50 / 76.00
Placement on Vehicle: Front, Rear, Left, Right
Compressor Trim: 55 Surface
Finish: Cast
Exhaust (Downpipe) Flange:
Standard T3 5-Bolt
Warranty: Yes
Horse Power Increment: 300
Materials: Cast Iron
Turbine A/R: 0.63
Part Brand: DNA Motoring
Turbine Trim: 73
Instruction Included: No
Intake Inlet/ Outlet: 4.00" / 2.50" Inlet / Outlet Size (IN): 4.00" / 2.50"
Exhaust (Turbo Manifold) Flange: Standard T3/ T4 4-Bolt

They are also commonly used in twin turbo applications. In this case those figures would be doubled 3.2L-5.0L engines up to 800HP. Horsepower ratings are generally meant to express the turbochargers maximum airflow capability. Recommended boost pressures are 7psi(.5 Bar) to 21psi(1.5 Bar) and boost pressures should not exceed 30psi(2 Bar).

 

[Jason_S]

First, 5 years ago eBay turbos were hit or miss, but mostly miss. That may have changed, but it is something to keep in mind.

Are you wanting a twin turbo or a single turbo? The turbos that you have linked are too small for a single turbo setup.

EDIT: Yes there are programmers that will give you the same info. That same unit may even work. They will be limited to info that the ECU has, so if you add a turbo, it wont see boost pressure, egt and such.

 

[EnigmaMan]

I agree the single turbo is small and would either need to do a single large turbo or twin which will help with spooling / lag.
Seems from all the reviews as long as you are not pushing 30+PSI and provide it with proper oil they seem to hold up pretty well.
Since i dont really plan on drag racing the yukon at every traffic light and mainly going to be using it for the highway I dont think it will suffer from as much abuse as some put them though!

 

[Jason_S]

Hot Rod Mag ran over 1200 hp through a stock short block on an engine dyno a few years ago. Had over 60 pulls above 1000 HP. They only re-gapped the stock rings. IIRC aftermarket cam heads and intake though.

With the LS V8, I wouldn't worry as much about turbo lag, but you will still feel when the turbo comes in.

So you are trying to improve volumetric efficiency for better highway mileage with a little more fun factor? A twin turbo makes more sense then. Like you said the smaller turbos will spool sooner and potentially be available at cruising engine rpm, depending on how you size them. IF you do see better mileage, it will not offset the cost of the system.

A twin scrolling turbo is also a valid single turbo option, but they cost more and take bit more effort to get them plumbed ideally. If I wanted to turbo my Burb and was ready for the headaches of an Ebay turbo, I would probably look at this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TX-60-62-Tu...and-Exhaust-62mm-T4-Twin-Scroll-/131426597729

 

[YukonandtheHOE]

Woohoo for remote turbos!

 

[Jason_S]

Wanted to add that you could also look at relocating the battery over to the secondary battery location behind the driver's side headlight. That and removing the the stock airbox should give you enough room for a turbo up under the hood. Accessing the spark plugs would probably lead to the coining of new curse words though.

The intercooler, could still be a pain, but is do-able.

 

[aflumb]

if it was me this is what i would get: its roughly double you $1K estimate but it is a complete kit. no guessing involved

http://www.on3performance.com/shop/2007-2013-chevygmc-silverado-sierra-15002500-truck-turbo-system/

I have looked at this for sometime. I would prefer the maggie but like you said the cost is just a little much.

 

[DWebPro]

if it was me this is what i would get: its roughly double you $1K estimate but it is a complete kit. no guessing involved

http://www.on3performance.com/shop/2007-2013-chevygmc-silverado-sierra-15002500-truck-turbo-system/

I have looked at this for sometime. I would prefer the maggie but like you said the cost is just a little much.

Oooohhhh! Thank you for this post, I have been looking for something like this!

 

[Keanen55]

I was looking at this twin turbo set up myself. I've seen them drop the price too

http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-11-Tahoe...ash=item25b1d52586:g:O2oAAOSwUdlWca1S&vxp=mtr

 

[DWebPro]

My only issue is I live in Cali... the ebay one wont ship to me and neither are carb exempt.

 

[Snowbound]

I'm just the newbie here but I couldn't resist throwing in my .02. First, all this talk about twins improving lag is not accurate. Compounds improve lag because one turbo (smaller) feeds the other (larger). You can google search to see what others are using or recommend but IMHO there are too many keyboard mechanics out there that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. As for losing PSI from tailpipe turbo, I think 1-2PSI was quoted, you'll lose that thru an intercooler anyway.

There are advantages to MAF and MAP sensors respectively. I prefer the MAF as I think most tuners do because it more accurately reads the incoming air than the pressure inside the intake. As most have said, I believe the only way to tune is by the seat of the pants. Buying a mail order tune may or may not just get you running but having a real tuner log and read data to make adjustments is the only way to go or your just throwing your money out the window. You need to take so many things into consideration with tuning. What may work for someone out west may not work for someone like you in FL. Now you may get a data logger and you can get a tuner to view the data, make changes and then email you the tune. But don't spend $400+ on a one time deal.

As far as turbo or compound turbos are concerned, there are a lot of variables to consider, not just the turbos themselves, but the EH sizes, the turbine sizes, wastegate sizes, cold pipe size, hot pipe size and material used, downpipe size, BOV's etc. Any and all of these has an effect to one degree or another. Some not so much, others are critical. But to keep it simple, mismatching the turbos will limit the overall effectiveness of the setup. For instance, too small a top turbo matched to a very large primary: the primary will never really spool to get to its efficiency range, the small turbo can't effectively "swallow" the amount of air being fed and you'll likely end up with to high of drive pressure from the restriction. You'll get fast spool on the top turbo but suffer top end performance. Reverse the scenario: too large a top turbo results in laggy performance and the bottom turbo will spool in a fashion similar to the top... almost a wasted effort. A rule of thumb, that I can see, is the top turbo should put out in lbs/min roughly 50-60% of what the bottom turbo will be capable of. So using a he351 putting out about 55 lbs/min of air max, a good choice to pair with it will be a turbo that produces somewhere between 90-100 lbs/min for quickspooling towing application (think s474 or 475) but no more than 110 lbs/min for racing and that is overkill. The HE351 limitations being a small EH, turbine and wastegate limiting power potential due to excessive DP above the 600 hp range.

If just a single hair dryer is in your sights things get a little easier. You really need to look at the mapping of the turbo, know how to read it and get yourself in the efficiency islands of the mapping to get the most out of a turbo. There's a lot of math involved. But as long as you follow along its not that complicated. Things that need to be figured out are volumetric flow rate, efficiency, mass flow rate, pressure ratio, compressor temp, intake temp, density ratio and CFM of the engine before you can convert all that info over to a turbo map to see where you need to be according to the islands of the maps.

I find thermodynamics very interesting and love math so sourcing the correct turbo based on a particular engine is a nice challenge for me. I can share some basic info that could shed some light on the fundamentals for you or you can just "Google" it and roll the dice.

 

[muncie21]

Interesting concept, try it out. Plenty of info on the net about butt turbos (not being derogatory towards your idea OP, that's just what many folks call them) do a search for "STS" and "C5" or Corvette, lots of info/advice.