Fuel efficiency drop in newer models ?

[Stbentoak]

Premium is now a buck more here in SE WI. $3.80 vs $2.80. Plus we have to use reformulated crap.

That's a big gripe of mine and another big reason (Of many) why I won't own another vehicle that takes premium. It used to be .30 cents more a gallon, then .60, now a buck more a gallon is standard. That's flat out highway robbery. Any decent vehicle out there demands premium and usually gets pretty lousy mileage. That's why I was stuck with diesel the last 10 plus years...

Also, the reason Toyota didn't get blowback on the engine contamination issue is right out of the box they said "Hey we will just replace them all no problem". GM isn't doing that..... they're putting conditions and band aids on it to see what little they can get away with....

 

[DuraYuk]

That's a big gripe of mine and another big reason (Of many) why I won't own another vehicle that takes premium. It used to be .30 cents more a gallon, then .60, now a buck more a gallon is standard. That's flat out highway robbery. Any decent vehicle out there demands premium and usually gets pretty lousy mileage. That's why I was stuck with diesel the last 10 plus years...

Also, the reason Toyota didn't get blowback on the engine contamination issue is right out of the box they said "Hey we will just replace them all no problem". GM isn't doing that..... they're putting conditions and band aids on it to see what little they can get away with....

That's not true. People were having catastrophic engine failures and toyota was rebuilding them. It wasn't until consumer sentiment got soured that they said screw it. We are putting in new engines. It's to preserve the reputation.

 

[viven44]

The companies want their customers to have faith in their products so they become brand loyal. It would be stupid to ruin reputation to save 25cents. This is largely a conspiracy with no basis in reality.

Its not a conspiracy. Obviously, nobody wants to sully their own reputation, THAT IDEA would be ignorant.... however, that doesn't mean the company's engineering decisions aren't ignorant ESPECIALLY if those fancy DOHC / Turbo engines are more expensive to manufacture.

Unfortunately, the generally public are easily swayed by fancy advertising gimmicks (ALL new twin-turbocharged Tundra!) but you can't fool a good engineer.

I don't care what vehicle it is but the data speaks for itself. On small cars turbocharging is only a means to make the vehicle more zippy when you hit the throttle by making it make torque at higher RPMs, not to make it fuel efficient, in fact quite the contrary, at the sacrifice of reliability in many cases.

Turbo charging engines have been a thing for decades and some of the most long lived reliable engines are boosted.

If you are going to say that you'll need to be more specific, are you referring to well built tank-like diesel engines? or are you referring to light car/truck turbo engines ? The spectrum is wide and the ideas and end results don't necessarily carry over...

 

[DuraYuk]

Its not a conspiracy. Obviously, nobody wants to sully their own reputation, THAT IDEA would be ignorant.... however, that doesn't mean the company's engineering decisions aren't ignorant ESPECIALLY if those fancy DOHC / Turbo engines are more expensive to manufacture.

Unfortunately, the generally public are easily swayed by fancy advertising gimmicks (ALL new twin-turbocharged Tundra!) but you can't fool a good engineer.

I don't care what vehicle it is but the data speaks for itself. On small cars turbocharging is only a means to make the vehicle more zippy when you hit the throttle by making it make torque at higher RPMs, not to make it fuel efficient, in fact quite the contrary, at the sacrifice of reliability in many cases.



If you are going to say that you'll need to be more specific, are you referring to well built tank-like diesel engines? or are you referring to light car/truck turbo engines ? The spectrum is wide and the ideas and end results don't necessarily carry over...

I dont mean to be rude but yeah. I don't think you fully grasp what I'm saying and I don't know that I'm the person to convince you.

Some turbo charged motors that are known for being stout? The rb series, the jz series, the 4a series, s58, ej series, fa series, sr series, lc2, s63, ltg, ea888, 3sgte, m276, b202, b48, k20c1 i mean I could go on and on and on and on. These are all gasoline btw.

 

[viven44]

I dont mean to be rude but yeah. I don't think you fully grasp what I'm saying and I don't know that I'm the person to convince you.

Some turbo charged motors that are known for being stout? The rb series, the jz series, the 4a series, s58, ej series, fa series, sr series i mean I could go on and on and on and on. These are all gasoline btw.

I appreciate that.. but you are probably correct I have no experience with those engines or brands so I should not assume anything about them without personal experience.

My idea of a perfect daily drive car is an early 2000s Buick with the 3800 series 2 V6, and I frankly think most people don't need anything more than that (strictly in terms of powerplant) so I think we are probably in different worlds.

I have been loyal to Ford/GM on their pushrod naturally aspirated technology for many years. I have stayed away from any new technology that doesn't improve my ownership experience and cost of ownership.

 

[vcode]

That's a big gripe of mine and another big reason (Of many) why I won't own another vehicle that takes premium. It used to be .30 cents more a gallon, then .60, now a buck more a gallon is standard. That's flat out highway robbery. Any decent vehicle out there demands premium and usually gets pretty lousy mileage. That's why I was stuck with diesel the last 10 plus years...

Also, the reason Toyota didn't get blowback on the engine contamination issue is right out of the box they said "Hey we will just replace them all no problem". GM isn't doing that..... they're putting conditions and band aids on it to see what little they can get away with....

Yep, total rip off. Like you said, used to be 30 cents, then 40, then 60, now a buck.

 

[viven44]

Anyway.... I think we've moved onto Turbo here.... but thats not the point of this thread.

I'll put it another way...

Spot the problem

Our 2002 Yukon and our 2024 suburban have the same engine displacement (5.3L)
Our 2002 is just a simple port injected engine and our 2024 has cylinder deactivation and DI fuel system
Our 2002 has a 4-speed transmission and our 2024 has a 10 speed
Our 2002 is more fuel efficient than our 2024 for city/hwy driving
Our 2002 can tow as much as our 2024

I hope it is clear

 

[DuraYuk]

Anyway.... I think we've moved onto Turbo here.... but thats not the point of this thread.

I'll put it another way...

Spot the problem

Our 2002 Yukon and our 2024 suburban have the same engine displacement (5.3L)
Our 2002 is just a simple port injected engine and our 2024 has cylinder deactivation and DI fuel system
Our 2002 has a 4-speed transmission and our 2024 has a 10 speed
Our 2002 is more fuel efficient than our 2024 for city/hwy driving
Our 2002 can tow as much as our 2024

I hope it is clear

Yukon xl? Or yukon?

There is a weight difference. The new engine makes more power too. Wheels are bigger. Im sure we can get to the bottom of it.

 

[viven44]

Yukon xl? Or yukon?

There is a weight difference. The new engine makes more power too. Wheels are bigger. Im sure we can get to the bottom of it.

Yeah if it was an XL, maybe would add a few hundred pounds... not enough to matter. You will see the rated fuel economy doesn't vary greatly

More power -- yes but simply shifting the torque to the higher RPM bands. HP is nothing but Torque x RPM / 5,252... yeah torque has gone up too (325 vs 383), but again peak in the upper RPMs.

What matters is fuel economy and tow rating for a truck. On the 1/2 tons, are you going to say GM has done a spectacular job in the last 20 years on those 2 metrics ?

 

[DuraYuk]

Yeah if it was an XL, maybe would add a few hundred pounds... not enough to matter. You will see the rated fuel economy doesn't vary greatly

More power -- yes but simply shifting the torque to the higher RPM bands. HP is nothing but Torque x RPM / 5,252... yeah torque has gone up too (325 vs 383), but again peak in the upper RPMs.

What matters is fuel economy and tow rating for a truck. On the 1/2 tons, are you going to say GM has done a spectacular job in the last 20 years on those 2 metrics ?

Your 2024 has way more features and way more safety.

You act like none of that matters. Or how much larger the interior is?

I mean if you just wanna believe yourself that's fine but objectively on this you are incorrect respectfully.