BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[Kaminski]

Do you think having 0W-40 in the engine during Pico test could mute some of the findings and potentially keep you from getting a new engine when you actually need one?

I don’t know for certain, but I imagine it could quiet it down. I’ll be switching to 0-20 right before my “test” although I shudder to pour that water in my engine and actually drive it.

 

[GMCChevy]

Cause my owners said they own the loaner cars NOT GM and they arent giving out cars to people that didnt buy from us. And if they are only paying 18.6 hours under warranty to do an engine replace then your gonna have dealerships and technicians not happy. You better take your car back to the dealership that you bought it from during this recall. I have talked to other service writers at other dealerships and a lot of them feel the same way about working on other brands or cars that werent bought from them.

It doesn't work that way. At the very least when it comes to brands the dealer represents they can't pick and choose what they work on for recalls.
If GM is putting people in a loaner vehicle thats on them and they should be reimbursing the dealer in some way for that. Chances are they'd be putting people in rentals because dealer owned loaners are usually a courtesy.

 

[viven44]

I don’t know for certain, but I imagine it could quiet it down. I’ll be switching to 0-20 right before my “test” although I shudder to pour that water in my engine and actually drive it.

Looks like the procedure calls for a minimum temp. I hope this is automated and not subject to the attention of the technician. Also what is the viscosity difference between 0W-20 and 0W-40 at 70C ?

IMPORTANT: Engine coolant temp much reach 70 degrees C before SPS commands engine speed to 2,000 RPM.

 

[Scagsdale]

We built parts in different locations and never changed the part number. The print is the print and it didn't matter where the part came from. We closed a plant and shifted production to another plant. Why would we change part numbers? We also purchased parts from different manufacturers. We didn't change the part number by vendor. That would be a nightmare.

Yep, the drawing controls the part number, not the manufacturing location. That’s how it was in Aerospace production when I was working for Hughes Aircraft Company. Maybe it’s different in Russia, though.

 

[Scagsdale]

Cause my owners said they own the loaner cars NOT GM and they arent giving out cars to people that didnt buy from us. And if they are only paying 18.6 hours under warranty to do an engine replace then your gonna have dealerships and technicians not happy. You better take your car back to the dealership that you bought it from during this recall. I have talked to other service writers at other dealerships and a lot of them feel the same way about working on other brands or cars that werent bought from them.

So, if you bought your car in 2021 in New York and then move to Florida, you have to drive a potentially dangerous vehicle all the way up to New York to get fixed? Hahahaha. The lawyers are gonna love that. GM should dump any dealership that pulls that garbage.

 

[Bkihum]

It doesn't work that way. At the very least when it comes to brands the dealer represents they can't pick and choose what they work on for recalls.
If GM is putting people in a loaner vehicle thats on them and they should be reimbursing the dealer in some way for that. Chances are they'd be putting people in rentals because dealer owned loaners are usually a courtesy.

Must be GM product and no older than 2 years.

 

[BADRIDES]

And GM would be ok with this? People buy vehicles outside of their area all the time. Or buy a vehicle then move. This is a national recall and you should do the recall no matter where the vehicle was purchased. I do kind of understand not doing other "brands" if you are a Chevy dealer. I'm not taking my Yukon to anything but a GMC dealer.

They are gonna have to be ok with it because my owners own the loaner vehicles not GM plus all my loaner cars are older than 3 years of the 21's so we couldnt loan them out cause we wont get reimbursed. They can go to an Enterprise dealership about 25 miles from my dealership and get a car if GM will pay for it.

 

[jfoj]

Looks like the procedure calls for a minimum temp. I hope this is automated and not subject to the attention of the technician. Also what is the viscosity difference between 0W-20 and 0W-40 at 70C ?

IMPORTANT: Engine coolant temp much reach 70 degrees C before SPS commands engine speed to 2,000 RPM.

Coolant Temp and Oil Temp are VERY different. I would have assumed that GM would have wanted the Oil temp controlled vs the Engine Coolant Temp. The large volume of oil in these engines take at least 20 minutes of DRIVING for the oil to reach the coolant temperature under most circumstances! Maybe if you are in Arizona with 110F ambient temps, you may only need to drive the vehicle for 15 minutes??

But who am I to question GM's test methods. Maybe they want fewer "Failed" inspections, it saves them a lot of money!

 

[mummer43]

They are gonna have to be ok with it because my owners own the loaner vehicles not GM plus all my loaner cars are older than 3 years of the 21's so we couldnt loan them out cause we wont get reimbursed. They can go to an Enterprise dealership about 25 miles from my dealership and get a car if GM will pay for it.

Sounds like a dealer no one should do business with.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Coolant Temp and Oil Temp are VERY different. I'd've assumed that GM would have wanted the Oil temp controlled vs the Engine Coolant Temp.
The large volume of oil in these engines take at least 20 minutes of DRIVING for the oil to reach the coolant temperature under most circumstances!
Maybe if you are in Arizona with 110F ambient temps, you may only need to drive the vehicle for 15 minutes?

Emphasis on coolant temp vs oil temp is due to environmental / chemical combustion concerns.
Even motor oil that is significantly colder than the coolant temp has very little to no effect on what the actual stoichiometric AFR is.
But if the motor oil is 221F & the coolant is at 31F, 14.7:1 is NOT stoichiometric inside that combustion chamber.

 

[BADRIDES]

Sounds like a dealer no one should do business with.

I'm telling you NO dealership is gonna jump and down to get in a hurry to do this recall because GM has cut the labor rates on this recall and they sure arent gonna get excited if you bought it 25 miles up the road but live in my hometown and its not convenient for you to take it back to your buying dealership. You arent gonna bring me the warranty work but wont give me customer pay work like an oil change.

 

[jfoj]

@Marky Dissod

This "Inspection" has to do more with "listening" for engine noise, knocking and vibration with the knock sensor that the dealer mounts to the engine temporarily for the test with the Pico Scope. The Pico Scope is an electronic storage oscilloscope that will capture a waveform and use some form of DSP/FFT to analyze the waveform and based on GM's requirements will either be a "Pass" or "Fail" test.

Since we are dealing with crankshaft and bearing related issues, the engine oil needs to be at a benchmark temperature for the test to actually work properly. The more variables you can control, the more accurate your "Inspection" process. This is why they have the engine at 2000 RPM, this is where you have minimal bearing loading and the calculations can determine based on the engine RPM, what knocking or noises are being detected based on the frequency of the noise.

Running the engine to get the coolant temperature to 70C/158F in the service bay will likely only get the oil up to about 52C/125F. IMHO this oil temperature is not ideal for this type of test, the oil probably needs to be close to or at the fully warmed up engine coolant temperature, probably closer to 94C/200F

The colder the oil, the more dampening and cushioning it would offer thereby possibly masking any crankshaft/bearing related problems making them even more difficult to detect.

While I have not actually used a knock sensor to detect a bearing related issue, I am sure it works, and it will be probably more accurate than trying to hear by ear, but I wonder how really sensitive this test is for finding minor bearing wear or damage or will it just find the problem engines that are about to grenade in a few hundred or thousand miles.

 

[mummer43]

I'm telling you NO dealership is gonna jump and down to get in a hurry to do this recall because GM has cut the labor rates on this recall and they sure arent gonna get excited if you bought it 25 miles up the road but live in my hometown and its not convenient for you to take it back to your buying dealership. You arent gonna bring me the warranty work but wont give me customer pay work like an oil change.

I bought my Yukon Denali from a dealer over an hour away because the dealer 10 minutes from my house was marking them up 5k over MSRP. I got it for under MSRP and have been using my local dealer for all service. I’ve been in contact with the service manager at my local dealer about this recall several times and he could not be nicer or more accommodating.

 

[NoYukonYet_1Jeep]

$150-$200 per service per hour, are you sure? I have seen several mentions here in the forum that changing the oil to 0-40 costs 150-160 USD, this is together with the cost of the oil. For example, we have an oil service, this is when you just change the oil in the engine and the oil filter, and that's it, nothing else. It costs about $ 250 with the cost of oil. If you evaluate this work separately, then the purely work of the oil change service costs about $ 80.
If you come, for example, with your spare parts, oil, filters, as I do. Then the work of the service for me comes out to be about $ 300, this is purely the work of the service for changing the oil, replacing the air filter, cabin filter, checking the car, updating the software, something else to do, well, there, lubricating the doors or sunroof, so for a trifle runs up to $ 300. And I'm talking about a service that is not an official dealer.
In the service that used to be an official GM dealer, car maintenance comes out about 600-700 dollars, which is about the same as I have for 300.
Here's another example, now the work on replacing the engine will cost me about 30 thousand dollars, and the work on removing the old one, revising the new one, installing a new one, plus new radiators, oil pipes and the rest will come out to about 4 thousand dollars. I don't know how much this job will cost in the United States.
In general, the salary of a mechanic, and people in general, is a very delicate topic and it is not customary for us to discuss it at all or ask a person a question about his income. But I can suspect that the mechanic in the service where I service the Yukon receives about $ 2500 a month. But this is Moscow, the capital of Russia, most likely, the farther to the regions, the lower the salary. I'm telling you this as a CFO, as a person who understands a little more about economics than an ordinary person).
However, I have a friend who has a factory, so they could not find a good locksmith for a metalworking machine, and they hardly found a very good specialist and pay him about $ 4500 per month. But it works very well, and a lot.
Recently, we have had a strong imbalance in technical specialties. Everyone wants to be a blogger and, it, lawyers. No one wants to go to learn how to twist the screws. Therefore, there is a strong shortage of specialists in this area.
And yes, in Russia, we count net earnings per month, after paying all taxes, how much a person receives on the account. Because the employer pays all taxes on wages for us

CFO, interesting. I thought you were the president.. of Russia lol. Jokes aside, appreciate the responses. Wish I had the time / resources to take your advice. Tick tick tick .. on my 23 Yukon Denali

 

[Bkihum]

I'm telling you NO dealership is gonna jump and down to get in a hurry to do this recall because GM has cut the labor rates on this recall and they sure arent gonna get excited if you bought it 25 miles up the road but live in my hometown and its not convenient for you to take it back to your buying dealership. You arent gonna bring me the warranty work but wont give me customer pay work like an oil change.

Customer can take the vehicle to any authorized GM dealer.The dealer gets paid for the work they do at the agreed upon rate. Let’s show the person with issue some concern and courtesy.

 

[viven44]

I'm telling you NO dealership is gonna jump and down to get in a hurry to do this recall because GM has cut the labor rates on this recall and they sure arent gonna get excited if you bought it 25 miles up the road but live in my hometown and its not convenient for you to take it back to your buying dealership. You arent gonna bring me the warranty work but wont give me customer pay work like an oil change.

Sounds like something the dealerships need to work out with GM. While I understand your perspective, this is definitely one of those jobs that the techs will get really good at doing so many back-to-back that maybe it won't take long at all..... I'm sure anyone that has wrenched knows how much quicker the same job goes the 3rd or 4th time.

 

[OR VietVet]

Yanking engines and leaving the transmission in the frame is not so bad when you do one right after the other. You know exactly how you position it and the transmission support equipment and exactly what to disconnect before you go to the next level. Have all the fluids there and the same tools instead of opening drawers and searching. If the r&r flat rate is say.....10 hours....give or take, you can likely knock 2 hours off of that, pretty soon.

Thread #999 says 18.9 hours?

 

[BADRIDES]

Customer can take the vehicle to any authorized GM dealer.The dealer gets paid for the work they do at the agreed upon rate. Let’s show the person with issue some concern and courtesy.

Yeah you can bring it to any GM dealer that you want to but that doesnt mean that they are gonna jump up and down in a hurry if you bought it somewhere else. They are gonna take of customers that bought from them first and show them courtesy.

 

[23Seven]

Cause my owners said they own the loaner cars NOT GM and they arent giving out cars to people that didnt buy from us. And if they are only paying 18.6 hours under warranty to do an engine replace then your gonna have dealerships and technicians not happy. You better take your car back to the dealership that you bought it from during this recall. I have talked to other service writers at other dealerships and a lot of them feel the same way about working on other brands or cars that werent bought from them.

Typical dealer response. Make the buyers feel the pain. Times have changed.

 

[23Seven]

They are gonna have to be ok with it because my owners own the loaner vehicles not GM plus all my loaner cars are older than 3 years of the 21's so we couldnt loan them out cause we wont get reimbursed. They can go to an Enterprise dealership about 25 miles from my dealership and get a car if GM will pay for it.

I’d never buy anything from you!