Suburban 2500

[calsdad]

You and a bunch of others - especially now that everyone is camping, if you find a good one act fast!

I don't have the production numbers in front of me - but I believe there are significantly less model year 2011, 2012 & 2013 2500 SUVs available - because they didn't produce any where near as many of them in those later years. If I remember correctly - that was a good part of what led GM to discontinue building the 2500 series SUVs.

The value may also be holding up - because GM has released the twelfth generation Suburban/Yukon - and there's no 2500 model in the lineup there either. The two rating on the new SUVs has a max somewhere around 7500 pounds if I recall.

Not sure why GM refuses to come up with a new 3/4 ton SUV - especially with the Duramax diesel - I would think there would be a market for that.

 

[intheburbs]

I don't have the production numbers in front of me - but I believe there are significantly less model year 2011, 2012 & 2013 2500 SUVs available - because they didn't produce any where near as many of them in those later years. If I remember correctly - that was a good part of what led GM to discontinue building the 2500 series SUVs.

The value may also be holding up - because GM has released the twelfth generation Suburban/Yukon - and there's no 2500 model in the lineup there either. The two rating on the new SUVs has a max somewhere around 7500 pounds if I recall.

Not sure why GM refuses to come up with a new 3/4 ton SUV - especially with the Duramax diesel - I would think there would be a market for that.

Well, the early years of GMT900 were no better. According to my build sheet, in 2008 there were 5,687 trucks built. That's a tiny number.

And moving forward, anything above a 1500 SUV is unlikely from GM, since the new platform has gone to IRS.

 

[calsdad]

Well, the early years of GMT900 were no better. According to my build sheet, in 2008 there were 5,687 trucks built. That's a tiny number.

And moving forward, anything above a 1500 SUV is unlikely from GM, since the new platform has gone to IRS.

2008 was a bad year economically. Not a big surprise that they didn't sell all that many. Especially because they built quite a few of the previous generation.

I agree : it seems unlikely there will be another 2500 series SUV. The new Suburban/Yukon has a new body style - with a longer wheelbase than the previous THREE generations. That means that the frame that was used on the GMT800, GMT900 - and the last gen Suburban 3500's - won't work under this new generation. So they'd be looking at a frame redesign as well.

Not sure how that works out longer term -since there does seem to be a market demand for the 2500/3500 series SUVs - if only from government sources.

I'm not sure how similar the 1500 / 2500-3500 latest generation GM pickups are chassis-wise. Previous gens had enough similarities - that (for instance) - the body from a 1500 pickup or SUV - could have been removed and installed on a 2500/3500 series chassis. I don't think this is true any more. That means that a 2500 SUV is probably a no-go , since GM is unlikely to dedicate engineering resources to develop one.

 

[Cyclemoe]

Guess I’ll be holding on to my ‘06 2500. I really do like the 6.0/4l80/4.10’s combo over the ‘05 1500 5.3/4l60/4.10 Combo I had.

 

[calsdad]

Guess I’ll be holding on to my ‘06 2500. I really do like the 6.0/4l80/4.10’s combo over the ‘05 1500 5.3/4l60/4.10 Combo I had.

What sort of mileage do you get with the 4.10 gearing?

My 2010 has 3.73 gearing if I remember correctly - there were no other options. But if you look at the tow ratings for a 2010 Chevy Silverado 2500 - with the 6.0L drivetrain - the tow rating goes up by about 2500 pounds when you have the 4.10 gearing.

 

[intheburbs]

What sort of mileage do you get with the 4.10 gearing?

My 2010 has 3.73 gearing if I remember correctly - there were no other options. But if you look at the tow ratings for a 2010 Chevy Silverado 2500 - with the 6.0L drivetrain - the tow rating goes up by about 2500 pounds when you have the 4.10 gearing.

The pickup trucks are also stouter than the 2500 Suburbans. You can think of them in three "tiers," relative to what was available in GMT800:

1) 1500 - half ton trucks, semifloater axles
2) 2500 SUVs - these are the equivalent of the 1500HD pickups of GMT800.
3) 2500HD pickups - even stouter, stiffer/higher-capacity rear springs, etc.

So just because the 2500HD pickup trailer rating goes up by 2500 lbs with the 4.10 rear, does not mean swapping in a 4.10 axle into an SUV would similarly increase its capacity. They're not the same platform.

 

[Cyclemoe]

What sort of mileage do you get with the 4.10 gearing?

My 2010 has 3.73 gearing if I remember correctly - there were no other options. But if you look at the tow ratings for a 2010 Chevy Silverado 2500 - with the 6.0L drivetrain - the tow rating goes up by about 2500 pounds when you have the 4.10 gearing.

I’m getting 10 in the city, 11ish on the Hwy. best I ever got was 14.1 while I was in the mountains of NM. I’m running 285/70-17’s on H2 wheels and it has 241k miles.

 

[calsdad]

The pickup trucks are also stouter than the 2500 Suburbans. You can think of them in three "tiers," relative to what was available in GMT800:

1) 1500 - half ton trucks, semifloater axles
2) 2500 SUVs - these are the equivalent of the 1500HD pickups of GMT800.
3) 2500HD pickups - even stouter, stiffer/higher-capacity rear springs, etc.

So just because the 2500HD pickup trailer rating goes up by 2500 lbs with the 4.10 rear, does not mean swapping in a 4.10 axle into an SUV would similarly increase its capacity. They're not the same platform.

Maybe the GMT800 2500 SUVs were more along the lines of the 1500HD pickup - especially because they didn't have the full floater axle, but the GMT900 2500 SUV from everything I can tell shares all the underpinnings of the 2500/3500 series pickup line

- the frame is good for at least 12,000 pounds , GM rated the GMT800 2500 SUV with the 8.1L gas engine at something like 12K for towing capacity, the GMT900 has this same exact frame.
- the front end components on the 2500 SUV are the same as the 2500/3500 series pickups
- the 10 bolt full floater axle on the GMT900 SUV - is the same as the pickups
- the 6.0L drivetrain is the same as the pickups
- the brakes on the 2500/3500 pickups - are the exact same parts as used on the 2500 SUV
- the 2500 series pickup with 3.73 gearing , is rated the same as the 2500 SUV - the only differences can be accounted for by looking at the different vehicle weights of each platform

Ergo................ a GMT900 2500 SUV with 4.10 gearing - should be fully capable of equal towing capacity to a 2500 series pickup with the same gearing.

There's absolutely nothing in the specs that points to anything that would make this not true. I've even gone so far as to look at individual part numbers on both platforms to see if there's any differences that might make the 2500 not capable. I can't find anything.

 

[intheburbs]

Maybe the GMT800 2500 SUVs were more along the lines of the 1500HD pickup - especially because they didn't have the full floater axle, but the GMT900 2500 SUV from everything I can tell shares all the underpinnings of the 2500/3500 series pickup line

- the frame is good for at least 12,000 pounds , GM rated the GMT800 2500 SUV with the 8.1L gas engine at something like 12K for towing capacity, the GMT900 has this same exact frame.
- the front end components on the 2500 SUV are the same as the 2500/3500 series pickups
- the 10 bolt full floater axle on the GMT900 SUV - is the same as the pickups
- the 6.0L drivetrain is the same as the pickups
- the brakes on the 2500/3500 pickups - are the exact same parts as used on the 2500 SUV
- the 2500 series pickup with 3.73 gearing , is rated the same as the 2500 SUV - the only differences can be accounted for by looking at the different vehicle weights of each platform

Ergo................ a GMT900 2500 SUV with 4.10 gearing - should be fully capable of equal towing capacity to a 2500 series pickup with the same gearing.

There's absolutely nothing in the specs that points to anything that would make this not true. I've even gone so far as to look at individual part numbers on both platforms to see if there's any differences that might make the 2500 not capable. I can't find anything.

2010 Suburban 2500 rear axle weight rating = 5500 lbs
2010 Silverado 2500 rear axle weight rating = 6084 lbs

2010 Suburban 2500 gross vehicle weight rating = 8600 lbs
2010 Silverado 2500 gross vehicle weight rating = 9200 lbs

If they're identical, why the differences?

And, BTW, the GMT800 2500s with the 8.1 got the 10.5" full floater, the 6.0s got the semifloater.

 

[puckhead]

So, school me on this beefier tow hitch people are talking about. Is it a direct bolt up? Or is there grinding and welding involved?

 

[intheburbs]

So, school me on this beefier tow hitch people are talking about. Is it a direct bolt up? Or is there grinding and welding involved?

Unnecessary, IMHO. I tow an 8600-lb trailer, 1120 tongue weight, no WD. Never had any issues. Confirmed with several friends who happen to be engineers who work at GM and worked on the platform.

Sure, if you're going to do a Duramax swap and plan to tow a 13k toy hauler, then you might want to upgrade to a class V.

 

[calsdad]

The GCWR for a 2010 Suburban 2500 ( 3.73 gears) & the 6.0L gas engine ... is 16,000 pounds

The GCWR for a 2010 Silverado 2500 w/3.73 gears & the 6.0L gas engine is........16,000 pounds


The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Suburban 2500 4x2 is.... 9600 pounds
The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Suburban 2500 4x4 is.... 9300 or 9400 pounds (depends on whether you look at 2010 or 2011 model year brochures)

The Suburban 2500 4x2 weighs 6179 pounds , the 4WD weighs 6447 (268 pound difference) - that's where your 300 pound difference in tow ratings comes in.

The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Silverado 2500HD Crew cab Long box 2WD is...... 9600 pounds
The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Silverado 2500HD Crew cab Long box 4WD is...... 9400 pounds

The Silverado 2500 Crew Cab long box 2WD weighs 6027 pounds, the 4WD weighs 6308 pounds

All of the trailer weight ratings - and the GCWR numbers - are directly out of the GM brochures or other publications.

The important point here is that the published weights of a Suburban 2500 & a Silverado Crew Cab long bed are pretty close between the 2WD & 4WD versions - and their published trailer tow weight ratings are the same and vary the same between the 2WD & 4WD versions.

Then - from the very same Chevy Silverado HD brochure that the numbers above were taken from - this is what the rating goes up to simply by going to the 4.10 gears:

GCWR : 20,500
max trailer weight (ball hitch) = 13,000 - 13,600 (varies depending on body style)


The GCWR for the Suburban 2500 & Silverado 2500 with 3.73 gears and the 6.0L drivetrain - are the exact same. The trailer tow ratings vary because the vehicle weights vary.

As a further example of this - the max trailer weight (ball hitch) for a 3500HD Big Dooley Long Box 4x4 - with the 6.0L gas engine and 3.73 gears - is only 8700 pounds - a full 600 pounds LESS than the Suburban 2500 4WD. It's because the dually model weighs heavy. The 4.10 gear ups the rating on the dually 4x4 to 13,200.

I can tell you for an absolute certainty that the full floater 10.5 " axle that is in the back of the GMT900 Suburban 2500 & the Silverado 2500 is the same exact axle. The only differences are spring and shock mounting points. GM doesn't go around producing axles of the same family - with varying weight carrying capacities. If the GAWR weight rating varies - it's because of spring rates, or the weight of the vehicle that the axle is mounted in - not the load carrying capacity of the axle unit itself.

And I'm sure the GAWR for the Silverado models varies depending on the body style. Single cab short bed vs crew cab long bed are different weights - I can't find the GAWR numbers for all of the different body styles of Silverado pickups.

The GVWR is not the tow rating. But you should take it into account when figuring out what how much trailer weight you can pull - if the vehicle is loaded down.

For example: If I take the 16,000 GCWR of a Suburban 2500 4x4 - and subtract out the weight of the vehicle (6447 pounds) and a 250 pound driver weight - I get 9303 pounds - which is pretty much exactly the trailer weight rating for the 4WD configuration.


The numbers show that a GMT900 Suburban 2500 - should be easily capable of towing more simply by changing over to 4.10 gearing. If there's a restriction on the trailer weight - it's going to come from the truck frame. The GMT800 8.1L Suburban 2500 models were rated to tow 12,000 pounds. So that's the highest factory trailer tow rating ever applied to a vehicle using that frame.

 

[calsdad]

So, school me on this beefier tow hitch people are talking about. Is it a direct bolt up? Or is there grinding and welding involved?

There are beefier hitches available from places like ETrailer for Suburban 2500s on the GMT800 chassis - they are direct bolt ups. Might have to drill some holes - I don't remember.

I don't recall there being any direct bolt up hitches available for the GMT900 Suburban 2500s - I ended up using the center section of a B&W 16k hitch setup for a Silverado - and made custom end brackets to mount it to the frame on my Yukon XL 2500.

 

[swathdiver]

The GCWR for a 2010 Suburban 2500 ( 3.73 gears) & the 6.0L gas engine ... is 16,000 pounds

The GCWR for a 2010 Silverado 2500 w/3.73 gears & the 6.0L gas engine is........16,000 pounds


The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Suburban 2500 4x2 is.... 9600 pounds
The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Suburban 2500 4x4 is.... 9300 or 9400 pounds (depends on whether you look at 2010 or 2011 model year brochures)

The Suburban 2500 4x2 weighs 6179 pounds , the 4WD weighs 6447 (268 pound difference) - that's where your 300 pound difference in tow ratings comes in.

The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Silverado 2500HD Crew cab Long box 2WD is...... 9600 pounds
The max trailer weight rating for a 2010 Silverado 2500HD Crew cab Long box 4WD is...... 9400 pounds

The Silverado 2500 Crew Cab long box 2WD weighs 6027 pounds, the 4WD weighs 6308 pounds

All of the trailer weight ratings - and the GCWR numbers - are directly out of the GM brochures or other publications.

The important point here is that the published weights of a Suburban 2500 & a Silverado Crew Cab long bed are pretty close between the 2WD & 4WD versions - and their published trailer tow weight ratings are the same and vary the same between the 2WD & 4WD versions.

Then - from the very same Chevy Silverado HD brochure that the numbers above were taken from - this is what the rating goes up to simply by going to the 4.10 gears:

GCWR : 20,500
max trailer weight (ball hitch) = 13,000 - 13,600 (varies depending on body style)


The GCWR for the Suburban 2500 & Silverado 2500 with 3.73 gears and the 6.0L drivetrain - are the exact same. The trailer tow ratings vary because the vehicle weights vary.

As a further example of this - the max trailer weight (ball hitch) for a 3500HD Big Dooley Long Box 4x4 - with the 6.0L gas engine and 3.73 gears - is only 8700 pounds - a full 600 pounds LESS than the Suburban 2500 4WD. It's because the dually model weighs heavy. The 4.10 gear ups the rating on the dually 4x4 to 13,200.

I can tell you for an absolute certainty that the full floater 10.5 " axle that is in the back of the GMT900 Suburban 2500 & the Silverado 2500 is the same exact axle. The only differences are spring and shock mounting points. GM doesn't go around producing axles of the same family - with varying weight carrying capacities. If the GAWR weight rating varies - it's because of spring rates, or the weight of the vehicle that the axle is mounted in - not the load carrying capacity of the axle unit itself.

And I'm sure the GAWR for the Silverado models varies depending on the body style. Single cab short bed vs crew cab long bed are different weights - I can't find the GAWR numbers for all of the different body styles of Silverado pickups.

The GVWR is not the tow rating. But you should take it into account when figuring out what how much trailer weight you can pull - if the vehicle is loaded down.

For example: If I take the 16,000 GCWR of a Suburban 2500 4x4 - and subtract out the weight of the vehicle (6447 pounds) and a 250 pound driver weight - I get 9303 pounds - which is pretty much exactly the trailer weight rating for the 4WD configuration.


The numbers show that a GMT900 Suburban 2500 - should be easily capable of towing more simply by changing over to 4.10 gearing. If there's a restriction on the trailer weight - it's going to come from the truck frame. The GMT800 8.1L Suburban 2500 models were rated to tow 12,000 pounds. So that's the highest factory trailer tow rating ever applied to a vehicle using that frame.

You got it. The 6.2 NHT pickups ran 3.73 gears and were rated to tow 1,000 pounds more (10,400) as well. To get beyond this, they need larger cooling systems, the ability to shed more heat in less time. More torque would be nice too!

 

[swathdiver]

When the Upfitter manuals come out we'll have to see if the body mounts on the new wagon matches any on the front of the new HD pickup chassis. Uncle Sam is going to need some new 2500s soon enough. As long as we have a healthy economy they'll get made.

 

[calsdad]

When the Upfitter manuals come out we'll have to see if the body mounts on the new wagon matches any on the front of the new HD pickup chassis. Uncle Sam is going to need some new 2500s soon enough. As long as we have a healthy economy they'll get made.

It's not outside the realm of probability that if Uncle Sam needs more 2500/3500 SUVs - that they just get completely custom built.

Duraburb has already built a few diesel conversions for .gov using those 3500 Suburbans from what I understand.

So they're already halfway there towards a "custom" 2500/3500 SUV - all they would likely need to go the rest of the way using the latest generation trucks - would be a new frame. And that's not undo-able - there's plenty of capability to do something like that in the high performance or off roading aftermarket.

It would cost a lot of money - but that never stopped the government before.

 

[calsdad]

When the Upfitter manuals come out we'll have to see if the body mounts on the new wagon matches any on the front of the new HD pickup chassis. Uncle Sam is going to need some new 2500s soon enough. As long as we have a healthy economy they'll get made.

It will be interesting to see if there is any measure of compatibility. An HD SUV with a 6.6L Duramax would be awesome - although likely completely out of my price range. The government fleet must be getting a bit old at this point. Whenever I see Trump on the White House lawn there's usually a black GMT900 parked somewhere in the background. Even if they're 2013 models - they're now 7-8 years old.

 

[96-2D-Hoe]

Wrong thread