Trying to get low

[Rocket Man]

Looking good!

 

[992dr]

Looking good!

Thank You



Happy New Year

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Turned out great and just in time for the new year! Good job man

 

[992dr]

Turned out great and just in time for the new year! Good job man

Thanks man, I appreciate it. Seriously, right in time for the new year haha.



Random question. I got my alignment today and its off by almost a degree. With the research I have done and people I had talk to this should not have happened.
The tech suggested I either lift it or find new shorter arms.
This tells me the alignment bushings were not necessary.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks

 

[NeverSatisfied]

This may be true. I have never used the bushings unless I go past 4”. To me tho they wouldn’t throw it that far out

 

[Sevenevez]

First I want to say thank you to everyone for there help and info. Its definitely appreciated.

My biggest issues were not having the hardware for the lower link adapter brackets and the drivers side sway bar bracket was more or less impossible to get the bolt in that was supposed to be drilled out. There is no way that was going to happen. I'm going to get back under there and drill it out through the bracket and get a longer bolt for it to work.

Took it around the block a few times, went over a nice section of smooth bumps and it settled down nicely. Actually the passenger side may not have been as tight as I thought, it needs to be adjusted. You might be able to see it in the pictures. It makes a little noise to.

Two random questions.
1. Its idling rather high after sitting since Thursday. Why would this be?
2. The ABS light is on. I'm just going to assume its a sensor, maybe lose or pulled out. Thoughts?

I think it looks great, very pleased with the outcome. Everything else is minor.
Now I need to whip out my DA polisher and maker look purdy. Should be easier now with her being so low hahaha. I also took some dimensions for my exhaust build while I was under there.

Well, I'm pooped again. Gonna go put my feet up and enjoy the next two days off
I'll be back

Thanks again guys

View attachment 189717 View attachment 189718

Very nice. Much better!

 

[992dr]

This may be true. I have never used the bushings unless I go past 4”. To me tho they wouldn’t throw it that far out

I thought the bushings were recommended to 4" and cam plates with bushings for 4+. Maybe I just misunderstood.
I may just bite the bullet and grab another set of MOOG arms to keep in spec.

Very nice. Much better!

Thanks man, I appreciate it.
Every time I walk out and see it, I smile and say "man, that looks good" haha

 

[iamdub]

Random question. I got my alignment today and its off by almost a degree. With the research I have done and people I had talk to this should not have happened.
The tech suggested I either lift it or find new shorter arms.
This tells me the alignment bushings were not necessary.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks

I was afraid those bushings would over-compensate.

Just like the Belltech alignment cams provide more positive camber adjustment, is there a way to modify the stock cams or whatever to get more negative adjustment?

Maybe a member here (or on another forum) is going really low and could use the alignment bushings- y'all could work out a sale or trade and you get a stock setup.

 

[992dr]

I was afraid those bushings would over-compensate.

Just like the Belltech alignment cams provide more positive camber adjustment, is there a way to modify the stock cams or whatever to get more negative adjustment?

Maybe a member here (or on another forum) is going really low and could use the alignment bushings- y'all could work out a sale or trade and you get a stock setup.

They were recommended from a member for a 4" drop.

I have the cam plates to but did not install them. The process was a little too involved for this time around, haha.

Well, I may end up getting another set and putting these in the shed. I guess if I decide to go lower I can always swap them out. Though the height is sittin pretty good right now. Maybe selling them would be the better thing to do. I have a hard time letting things go

 

[iamdub]

They were recommended from a member for a 4" drop.

I have the cam plates to but did not install them. The process was a little too involved for this time around, haha.

Well, I may end up getting another set and putting these in the shed. I guess if I decide to go lower I can always swap them out. Though the height is sittin pretty good right now. Maybe selling them would be the better thing to do. I have a hard time letting things go

But the only real drop that the suspension is seeing is the 2 inches from the lowered coil perches. 2" of your 4" drop is from the spindles and that doesn't alter those geometries like shorter (or relocated) coils do. A 2" coil drop isn't enough to require so much camber correction. I believe most align out their 2" coil drops with the stock cams. Or maybe they get close. If they don't align it out, it's at least close enough that it doesn't need much and that's where the Belltech cams are used.

 

[992dr]

But the only real drop that the suspension is seeing is the 2 inches from the lowered coil perches. 2" of your 4" drop is from the spindles and that doesn't alter those geometries like shorter (or relocated) coils do. A 2" coil drop isn't enough to require so much camber correction. I believe most align out their 2" coil drops with the stock cams. Or maybe they get close. If they don't align it out, it's at least close enough that it doesn't need much and that's where the Belltech cams are used.

I didn't lower the perch on the struts.
Its on 2.33" drop coils, 2" spindles and factory set struts + the 1/2" spacer to compensate for the .33" extra drop from the coil.

I think it would've aligned without the bushings. I'm probably going to swap arms for now and post them up when the weather starts to warm up.
I'll probably sell the cam plates to. After looking at it (just came in from shoveling), I don't think I'll be going lower.

Thanks for helping out, I appreciate it.

 

[992dr]

Sorry, brain fart. If I went with lowering the strut, then the alignment bushings would've got me in spec?

 

[iamdub]

I didn't lower the perch on the struts.
Its on 2.33" drop coils, 2" spindles and factory set struts + the 1/2" spacer to compensate for the .33" extra drop from the coil.

I think it would've aligned without the bushings. I'm probably going to swap arms for now and post them up when the weather starts to warm up.
I'll probably sell the cam plates to. After looking at it (just came in from shoveling), I don't think I'll be going lower.

Thanks for helping out, I appreciate it.

Shorter coils or stock-height coils located lower on the strut body- same thing as far as this is concerned.

Picture it this way- Your Tahoe's suspension is 100% stock. A giant hand pushes on your Tahoe and squashes it down 2" (or 2.33" or 3"... whatever). The spring is compressed this amount. This makes the control arms swing upward through their range of motion, which is an arc, just as they would when the Tahoe is riding over humps/dips in the road at speed. The top arm is shorter so when it swings, it pulls the top of the steering knuckle ("spindle") inward. Using a shorter coil or relocating the coil lower on the strut body is the same as having this giant hand pushing down and compressing the suspension. That 2" or 2.33" or whatever is just that much less that the suspension has left to cycle. So, if your suspension had 5" of upward travel before it hit the bump stop, it'll now have 3" or 2.67" or whatever. Since the arms are now positioned "permanently" in their range of travel where the top is pulled inward, you have to do something to push the pivot point of the top arm outward. Offset bushings or camber plates are what does this.

Now, picture your Tahoe's suspension being 100% stock. You cut the hubs off and weld them 2" higher on the spindles. This puts the wheels 2" upward, closer to the fenders, which means the Tahoe is lowered 2" cuz it's not just gonna float 2" off the ground. Nothing is changed with the suspension. The arms are still exactly in the position they where in when the Tahoe rolled off the assembly line. The suspension still has however much upward travel it has always had. You got 2" of drop and no "fixing" is required.

2" of drop (or 1.88") isn't enough to throw off the alignment far enough to need such drastic "fixing" as offset bushings. The stock cams (AKA "camber plates") may be able to provide enough adjustment to get it back to factory specs. If the stock cams are maxed out and further adjustment is still needed, the Belltech cams provide additional adjustment range for this. They basically extend the range of adjustment to pick up where the stock cam's adjustment range maxes out. Offset bushings are a big jump in alignment correction, but they are not adjustable. You had better hope that whatever degree of correction they provide is what you need or at least what you need. Your relatively minimal drop didn't need so much correction.

 

[iamdub]

Sorry, brain fart. If I went with lowering the strut, then the alignment bushings would've got me in spec?

Since the bushings are for correcting the more severe changes to alignment a bigger drop would impose, then it's likely that this would work. You'd have to have a 4+ inch drop in the front, though.

What you'd be doing is aligning for a big drop first, then doing the drop instead of doing the drop and aligning afterward. You basically aligned your Tahoe for an amount of drop that you did not do. Since the bushings aren't adjustable, you can't just "dial it back a little". You can try maxing out the stock camber plates all the way back the other way to undo what the bushing did, but I'm sure that's what your alignment tech tried.

 

[HiHoeSilver]

Shorter coils or stock-height coils located lower on the strut body- same thing as far as this is concerned.

Picture it this way- Your Tahoe's suspension is 100% stock. A giant hand pushes on your Tahoe and squashes it down 2" (or 2.33" or 3"... whatever). The spring is compressed this amount. This makes the control arms swing upward through their range of motion, which is an arc, just as they would when the Tahoe is riding over humps/dips in the road at speed. The top arm is shorter so when it swings, it pulls the top of the steering knuckle ("spindle") inward. Using a shorter coil or relocating the coil lower on the strut body is the same as having this giant hand pushing down and compressing the suspension. That 2" or 2.33" or whatever is just that much less that the suspension has left to cycle. So, if your suspension had 5" of upward travel before it hit the bump stop, it'll now have 3" or 2.67" or whatever. Since the arms are now positioned "permanently" in their range of travel where the top is pulled inward, you have to do something to push the pivot point of the top arm outward. Offset bushings or camber plates are what does this.

Now, picture your Tahoe's suspension being 100% stock. You cut the hubs off and weld them 2" higher on the spindles. This puts the wheels 2" upward, closer to the fenders, which means the Tahoe is lowered 2" cuz it's not just gonna float 2" off the ground. Nothing is changed with the suspension. The arms are still exactly in the position they where in when the Tahoe rolled off the assembly line. The suspension still has however much upward travel it has always had. You got 2" of drop and no "fixing" is required.

2" of drop (or 1.88") isn't enough to throw off the alignment far enough to need such drastic "fixing" as offset bushings. The stock cams (AKA "camber plates") may be able to provide enough adjustment to get it back to factory specs. If the stock cams are maxed out and further adjustment is still needed, the Belltech cams provide additional adjustment range for this. They basically extend the range of adjustment to pick up where the stock cam's adjustment range maxes out. Offset bushings are a big jump in alignment correction, but they are not adjustable. You had better hope that whatever degree of correction they provide is what you need or at least what you need. Your relatively minimal drop didn't need so much correction.

Hmmm.... Not buying this whole "it won't just float 2" off the ground" thing.....

 

[992dr]

Shorter coils or stock-height coils located lower on the strut body- same thing as far as this is concerned.

Picture it this way- Your Tahoe's suspension is 100% stock. A giant hand pushes on your Tahoe and squashes it down 2" (or 2.33" or 3"... whatever). The spring is compressed this amount. This makes the control arms swing upward through their range of motion, which is an arc, just as they would when the Tahoe is riding over humps/dips in the road at speed. The top arm is shorter so when it swings, it pulls the top of the steering knuckle ("spindle") inward. Using a shorter coil or relocating the coil lower on the strut body is the same as having this giant hand pushing down and compressing the suspension. That 2" or 2.33" or whatever is just that much less that the suspension has left to cycle. So, if your suspension had 5" of upward travel before it hit the bump stop, it'll now have 3" or 2.67" or whatever. Since the arms are now positioned "permanently" in their range of travel where the top is pulled inward, you have to do something to push the pivot point of the top arm outward. Offset bushings or camber plates are what does this.

Now, picture your Tahoe's suspension being 100% stock. You cut the hubs off and weld them 2" higher on the spindles. This puts the wheels 2" upward, closer to the fenders, which means the Tahoe is lowered 2" cuz it's not just gonna float 2" off the ground. Nothing is changed with the suspension. The arms are still exactly in the position they where in when the Tahoe rolled off the assembly line. The suspension still has however much upward travel it has always had. You got 2" of drop and no "fixing" is required.

2" of drop (or 1.88") isn't enough to throw off the alignment far enough to need such drastic "fixing" as offset bushings. The stock cams (AKA "camber plates") may be able to provide enough adjustment to get it back to factory specs. If the stock cams are maxed out and further adjustment is still needed, the Belltech cams provide additional adjustment range for this. They basically extend the range of adjustment to pick up where the stock cam's adjustment range maxes out. Offset bushings are a big jump in alignment correction, but they are not adjustable. You had better hope that whatever degree of correction they provide is what you need or at least what you need. Your relatively minimal drop didn't need so much correction.

I appreciate the info.
I'm certainly not familiar with strut suspension, though I have a learned a lot since installing my drop.
The last sentence basically sums it up.
I will be getting factory uppers this week.
Thank you very much for your help

Since the bushings are for correcting the more severe changes to alignment a bigger drop would impose, then it's likely that this would work. You'd have to have a 4+ inch drop in the front, though.

What you'd be doing is aligning for a big drop first, then doing the drop instead of doing the drop and aligning afterward. You basically aligned your Tahoe for an amount of drop that you did not do. Since the bushings aren't adjustable, you can't just "dial it back a little". You can try maxing out the stock camber plates all the way back the other way to undo what the bushing did, but I'm sure that's what your alignment tech tried.

You are correct. When we talked, he did mention that he did all he could with the stock cam plates and did the best he could do. He also suggested a shorter upper arm. He was actually pretty cool about it, gave me 30 days for a free alignment. The sooner I get them and install them the sooner he will re-do my alignment
Thanks again man, much appreciated.

 

[iamdub]

I appreciate the info.
I'm certainly not familiar with strut suspension, though I have a learned a lot since installing my drop.
The last sentence basically sums it up.
I will be getting factory uppers this week.
Thank you very much for your help



You are correct. When we talked, he did mention that he did all he could with the stock cam plates and did the best he could do. He also suggested a shorter upper arm. He was actually pretty cool about it, gave me 30 days for a free alignment. The sooner I get them and install them the sooner he will re-do my alignment
Thanks again man, much appreciated.

Happy to help. If you could take anything from this, you can consider yourself a martyr. You have now documented what will be the result of using certain alignment parts with certain methods of drop and others will have your experiences to refer to when piecing together their drop setup.

 

[992dr]

Happy to help. If you could take anything from this, you can consider yourself a martyr. You have now documented what will be the result of using certain alignment parts with certain methods of drop and others will have your experiences to refer to when piecing together their drop setup.

I hope others can learn from my experience.
Al in all, it wasn't bad, well, besides the weather haha.
If I had any advise to give right now. It would be, wait until summer time to install your suspension

 

[992dr]

A little update.
After my alignment didn't pull into spec. Talking with the mechanic, I need to either put in stock arms or I think I can pull out a couple of spacers in the struts and he should be able to get it into spec.
I originally bought 60742 Airlift helper bags for Tonys 6" rear coils. What sucks is, they didn't come with anything. Bags and airlines, that's it no fittings. Kinda sucks but, I think I'm going to pull the coils and remove the upper isolators. I'll replace them with heater hose to get a little more drop out of the rear to match the front when I pull the spacers in the struts. It's sitting pretty damn close to level right now, maybe off but a 1/8". Not bad haha. I hope I can find some air fittings at the local parts store when I have the coils out I'd like to hook them up.
While I'm back there I need to figure out the rear driver's bar mount, only have one bolt in it. Can't fit the other, I'd really like to know what others have done in this situation. I can't be the only one who ran into this problem.
I also need to find shorter front sway bar links. May modify the stock ones. I found a nice set of adjustable ones but they're $$$$.
The rear seems to make a lot of noise too. Not sure if its slop in the bolt holes or what. I'll be climbing back under this weekend to take a looksy, even though its snowing right now. Hopefully, it'll clear up.
Man, I wish it was 80 degrees sunny and not a cloud in the sky
That's all folks

 

[992dr]

I also posted this in the "2" vs 3" spindles thread.


So, I went under today and went through everything thoroughly. What I found was rather interesting. And I'm surprised I didn't see this when I was looking around before.
The threaded reinforcement plates and bolts that secure the shock extender on, the drivers side was gone. Both, bolt and plate. Passenger side was very loose and almost to the point of disappearing as well. Which in turn loosened the mounting bolts to the extenders and made the shock extender swing during any kind of suspension movement. Basically riding on just coil, hence why its been so bouncy. The metal on metal I've been hearing has been the reinforcement plates (or what's left of them) rattling around going over bumps or on dirt roads.

I removed the one reinforcement plate and made a template and used some 1/4" plate to make replacement plates and through bolted them. I think DJM should've gone this route. I also think DJM should've used single bolts with tube spacers instead of one bolt per hole.
BellTechs shock extenders are a heck of a lot nicer, too bad they are not compatible to the DJM kit or actually too bad BellTech never came up with this link adapter kit.

The squeaking seems to be the drivers side rear upper coil isolator.

I only drove it home so cant really give any feedback yet. But the short distance back home, I noticed there was quite a difference. Especially with the noise and bounce. ​