Need some honest advice on what SUV to get

[Vistance]

Hey guys, the last time I was here I was looking at a pretty high mile (208k) Denali XL but I decided against it despite very good records and all because I just did not need something that big. I've been looking for a wagon or an SUV to replace my car to give myself the ability to haul things for a house I'll be buying in the near future. It's been an arduous process trying to decide on what I think looks good, what I would enjoy driving, etc. I'll admit full stop I have only had cars all my life, I have had some big cars (Deville) but no trucks or SUVs. However I just don't think I can manage to cram everything into a car that well when I've got a house and haven't needed to put anything too big in my cars.

My short list (yeah, I doubt most people cross shop these - but whatever, I can see merits in many different ways).

• '06-'08 Infiniti FX35 AWD - I like the looks of these, they have a great exhaust note, they seem reasonable on MPG at around 18 MPG, and I love luxury gadgets and stuff which they have intelligent key and things like that.
  Downsides: Hard to find in the specific colors I want, I have a specific feature set I want, not the most cargo space for an SUV, some of these years have dash bubbling problems ($1k to replace).
  
  
• '04-'09 4Runner V6/V8 4WD - Looks good, drives reasonably well, not a powerhouse but I test drove a V6 one with nearly 200k miles and it had plenty of go.
  Downsides: Toyota reliability means the price for these even with a lot of miles is still high. The one I looked at had the 4LO actuator broken, probably lots of these while still running good haven't had proper maintenance so would be some catch up stuff to do to ensure they keep running well. V8 has timing belt, people seem to questionably keep up on this. Kinda sucks to pay so much and be getting 160-200k miles and they're not all that new.
  
  
• '07-'09 Lexus RX350 AWD - Very nice interior, drives smooth, really has a lot of cargo capacity for no bigger than it is, Lexus being Toyota has great reliability and I know of no real issues with these.
  Downsides: Possibly the most "rich" soccer mom looking SUV out there. It's like a 65-70% female owned car, and as a guy that hurts its appeal to me. I'd have to get one in black, the only decent color and would need to do a few exterior mods to not have it look so plain.
  
  
• '07+ FJ Cruiser 6MT 4WD - As someone who normally only likes cars, these look cool to me. Wranglers never did it for me, but these do look kind of retro classic. Toyota reliability again, so these will last and people all believe it too so they keep their resale value well. It's a real off road machine too (Not that I honestly have any need for that).
  Downsides: They seem a bit more prone to road noise, visibility not the best with the weird design, the cool shape makes for some bad gas mileage and it has a really small gas tank for the MPG it gets (Around 15-17 MPG) giving it like a 220-240 mile range. My previous 5.0 Mustang GT had a range like that and it drove me nuts.
  
  
• '04-'06 Tahoe Z71 - These still look great, I remember from my test drive of the Denali XL that they ride really nice and I like that feeling of the bulk that it has. Not as "modern fancy" as the Infiniti or Lexus, but reminds me more of the pre-Art & Science Cadillac with that old school luxury feel. Genuinely has massive hauling capability and towing capability if I ever needed it.
  Downsides: Gas mileage is the biggest one, with all this weight and just a 4 speed auto the best MPG I saw people reporting was 15 MPG in mixed driving. I'm more comfortable around 18-20 MPG, but I'm afraid of pouring all my money into the gas tank all the time. I also know theft on these is a bit higher thanks to dumb gangsters that like to chop shop these or the like. How much that might be a problem I don't know as it's not a concern in my area usually, but I won't even consider an Escalade because of the theft rate and I know insurance would be more pricey on one because of it.

My car (and this replacement) is/will be a second vehicle for me, with my other being a Corvette. I will drive the Corvette a fair amount when it's Spring-Fall, so it will be a fair split between it and whatever the other vehicle is. However, hauling stuff in the Vette will be limited and I don't care to drive it in the rain if I can avoid it - nor the winter (It has summer tires). I found a very clean, well kept '05 Z71 with nearly every option (even the old GPS system) with about 130k miles on it for $10k but I hate to drive something as big as a Tahoe when I have no family to haul in it. It's an awful lot of vehicle to move around for just me. But I do like the safe feeling of that said size, a luxury in its own regard despite not being a luxury vehicle per se.

Thoughts? I know I'll get some bias in favor of the Tahoe. I'm fortunate enough to work out of my own home so I don't drive every day but my current car gets 20 MPG with me punching it all the time and it's a sporty V6 sedan with a 6-speed manual. I have no complaints at all about the gas mileage on that (if I drove it easy I could get 22-23 MPG). The FX35 is almost a more luxurious SUV version of my car, but cargo wise it has nothing on any of the others except the FJ. If gas mileage ever became too big an issue, I'd like the safety of knowing someone else would still buy it - the lowest MPG SUVs I feel will get tanked hard. My Vette is paid off as is my car, so at present money is no issue but I like to live very safely within my means.

 

[Danny3737]

I'm on my second Denali, my current one is an 04 ( not XL ). I bought it last Dec. and it only had 43K miles on it. So far, other than brakes and tires, I haven't had any issues. My first one was an 02 XL that I bought used that had 19K miles on it. I kept it for 5 years and put another 45K miles on it. During that time, I didn't have one problem with it. I replaced the first one with a Toyota 2008 Toyota Highlander and drove that for 5 years. The Highlander was a great vehicle with no issues what so ever.

Even though the Highlander was rock solid, I kicked myself for ever selling my Denali. I really missed the size and ride of the Denali, a few extra bucks per tankful wasn't enough of a downfall. I spend a lot of time driving so comfort and reliability come first. My previous vehicle was a 99 Suburban that was rock solid as well which was the reason to stay with GM.

All the vehicles you listed are good quality and I wouldn't let a few MPG difference be the reason for your decision. Good luck with your decision.

 

[08HoeCD]

With even just minimal maintenance, a 4Runner will run at least 250k miles with very, very few issues, so the cost of entry is offset by the life expectancy---you won't have to pay much (or anything) to repair or replace it for a long, long time. I looked at a few before buying my Tahoe but didn't like how they drove and the cargo capacity/configuration wasn't working for me.

You won't get that much cargo room in the Lexus or FJ Cruiser; not so sure about the Infiniti.

I'm not very biased towards the Tahoe. I've been driving one only for about 7 months and I've had to repair/replace a few things---some fairly minor, such as a few door lock actuators, and both heater hose connectors (at the firewall), and my transmission cooler lines were leaking and needed replaced. All in all, however, I like it and enjoy the nice ride and ample cargo capacity, I'd do it again.

 

[cmc76]

of the SUV you have listed, ive only owned the infiniti. Amazing car. But now that i have a tahoe, i actually prefer it. Its not as zippy, and missing some of the creature comforts of the FX. But with a light foot, I get comparable fuel economy, but can also haul, and fill up the back. Storage in the FX wasnt even worth having.

 

[iamdub]

Considering the initial cost of a GMT800 SUV and the cost of maintenance and repairs, I'd say the 3 MPG lesser fuel economy isn't so much of an issue depending on how much you'll drive it. Also, I'm pretty sure it has more cargo and towing capacity than the other four you listed. I guess it comes down to what suits you best- do you do your own maintenance/repairs? Will you be loading it up all that often? If you find a good enough deal on a more expensive import, is pulling a trailer an option for the (relatively few?) times you'll need to transport larger amounts of cargo?

 

[Vistance]

I am trying to go into buying this new vehicle as driving a bit easier and trying to cruise. I have a Corvette, so not like I need to hot rod my other car. For me though probably easier said than done. In my area not far from a large city, I do probably 60/40 City/Highway driving. I am not sure how much cargo capacity I need to be honest, when I buy my house though I'm sure I'll be loading various things in the back of whatever it is. I'm sure the Lexus or Infiniti will look a bit funny outside a Lowe's but I'm not a *****, I'd load stuff into them if I needed to unlike probably most who owned them before. Doing my own maintenance, well I do my own oil changes, rotors, brake pads, bulbs, spark plugs, etc. I've been fortunate enough so far to not have anything on my Altima outright fail. I had a clutch slave cylinder installed, mostly because I wasn't sure how to do it and if I screwed that up I would have to pull the clutch pedal up with my foot. It would depend on the simplicity of working on the thing as well as how much room you have (SUVs seem like they would have more than a car on average).

So in theory I can do some of my own repairs, but the more complicated stuff I'd rather just take it somewhere and pay them to do it. I don't have a garage or anything, so I don't have a great place to work on a car besides my driveway. I wouldn't mind using a trailer to haul extra with something smaller, other than the expense/storage concerns of getting said trailer (Unless I guess I rent one from Uhaul?). It feels hard to speak to how much space I "need", my sedan hasn't has a problem holding what I need so far but I haven't had to move with it or furnish a house. I'm trying to anticipate how much space I'll need, though part of my reason is also to get something newer and safer as well as AWD/4WD. The Tahoe is a bit older in design, but its size tends to quell my concerns about safety. But these days it's hard to say, I know newer is always better for safety.

I guess one other thought is maneuvering such as smaller parking lots. The Tahoe has no factory backup camera in these years (I'm guessing?) so the blindspots do seem a possible issue. I would only get an Infiniti or Lexus with the backup camera, though I drove one of each on a test drive and thought their visibility felt decent as it was. But to be fair I know it's just take it slow and check your mirrors a lot. Over the years I've had people in various SUVs not do this and some didn't even pay attention to my honking as they backed up right towards me. My previous car was a large Buick, so I've been fairly accustomed to driving bigger things - but nothing with the size of a full size truck or SUV.

 

[Knope]

Hey guys, the last time I was here I was looking at a pretty high mile (208k) Denali XL but I decided against it despite very good records and all because I just did not need something that big. I've been looking for a wagon or an SUV to replace my car to give myself the ability to haul things for a house I'll be buying in the near future. It's been an arduous process trying to decide on what I think looks good, what I would enjoy driving, etc. I'll admit full stop I have only had cars all my life, I have had some big cars (Deville) but no trucks or SUVs. However I just don't think I can manage to cram everything into a car that well when I've got a house and haven't needed to put anything too big in my cars.

My short list (yeah, I doubt most people cross shop these - but whatever, I can see merits in many different ways).

• '06-'08 Infiniti FX35 AWD - I like the looks of these, they have a great exhaust note, they seem reasonable on MPG at around 18 MPG, and I love luxury gadgets and stuff which they have intelligent key and things like that.
  Downsides: Hard to find in the specific colors I want, I have a specific feature set I want, not the most cargo space for an SUV, some of these years have dash bubbling problems ($1k to replace).
  
  
• '04-'09 4Runner V6/V8 4WD - Looks good, drives reasonably well, not a powerhouse but I test drove a V6 one with nearly 200k miles and it had plenty of go.
  Downsides: Toyota reliability means the price for these even with a lot of miles is still high. The one I looked at had the 4LO actuator broken, probably lots of these while still running good haven't had proper maintenance so would be some catch up stuff to do to ensure they keep running well. V8 has timing belt, people seem to questionably keep up on this. Kinda sucks to pay so much and be getting 160-200k miles and they're not all that new.
  
  
• '07-'09 Lexus RX350 AWD - Very nice interior, drives smooth, really has a lot of cargo capacity for no bigger than it is, Lexus being Toyota has great reliability and I know of no real issues with these.
  Downsides: Possibly the most "rich" soccer mom looking SUV out there. It's like a 65-70% female owned car, and as a guy that hurts its appeal to me. I'd have to get one in black, the only decent color and would need to do a few exterior mods to not have it look so plain.
  
  
• '07+ FJ Cruiser 6MT 4WD - As someone who normally only likes cars, these look cool to me. Wranglers never did it for me, but these do look kind of retro classic. Toyota reliability again, so these will last and people all believe it too so they keep their resale value well. It's a real off road machine too (Not that I honestly have any need for that).
  Downsides: They seem a bit more prone to road noise, visibility not the best with the weird design, the cool shape makes for some bad gas mileage and it has a really small gas tank for the MPG it gets (Around 15-17 MPG) giving it like a 220-240 mile range. My previous 5.0 Mustang GT had a range like that and it drove me nuts.
  
  
• '04-'06 Tahoe Z71 - These still look great, I remember from my test drive of the Denali XL that they ride really nice and I like that feeling of the bulk that it has. Not as "modern fancy" as the Infiniti or Lexus, but reminds me more of the pre-Art & Science Cadillac with that old school luxury feel. Genuinely has massive hauling capability and towing capability if I ever needed it.
  Downsides: Gas mileage is the biggest one, with all this weight and just a 4 speed auto the best MPG I saw people reporting was 15 MPG in mixed driving. I'm more comfortable around 18-20 MPG, but I'm afraid of pouring all my money into the gas tank all the time. I also know theft on these is a bit higher thanks to dumb gangsters that like to chop shop these or the like. How much that might be a problem I don't know as it's not a concern in my area usually, but I won't even consider an Escalade because of the theft rate and I know insurance would be more pricey on one because of it.

My car (and this replacement) is/will be a second vehicle for me, with my other being a Corvette. I will drive the Corvette a fair amount when it's Spring-Fall, so it will be a fair split between it and whatever the other vehicle is. However, hauling stuff in the Vette will be limited and I don't care to drive it in the rain if I can avoid it - nor the winter (It has summer tires). I found a very clean, well kept '05 Z71 with nearly every option (even the old GPS system) with about 130k miles on it for $10k but I hate to drive something as big as a Tahoe when I have no family to haul in it. It's an awful lot of vehicle to move around for just me. But I do like the safe feeling of that said size, a luxury in its own regard despite not being a luxury vehicle per se.

Thoughts? I know I'll get some bias in favor of the Tahoe. I'm fortunate enough to work out of my own home so I don't drive every day but my current car gets 20 MPG with me punching it all the time and it's a sporty V6 sedan with a 6-speed manual. I have no complaints at all about the gas mileage on that (if I drove it easy I could get 22-23 MPG). The FX35 is almost a more luxurious SUV version of my car, but cargo wise it has nothing on any of the others except the FJ. If gas mileage ever became too big an issue, I'd like the safety of knowing someone else would still buy it - the lowest MPG SUVs I feel will get tanked hard. My Vette is paid off as is my car, so at present money is no issue but I like to live very safely within my means.

I have some personal first hand experience and also some first hand opinions on the matter.

#1 - the FJ Cruiser is the most ridiculous vehicle on the road. I've only ridden in one and it's not a fast vehicle, not a great riding vehicle, and I don't off-road so it'd be pretty useless for me. I wouldn't drive it if it was given to me (unless the windows were 5% and no one would know it was me)
#2 - Lexus RX350 is a great vehicle. My mom has a black 2008 model with almost 190k miles and the ONLY issue she ever had is an ABS fuse blew and kept it from shifting out of park. Luckily, I was able to fix it with no problems. This reinforces what you already stated that it is a mom car. Reliable vehicle, drives great, good gas mileage...can't argue with that.
#3 I've had plenty of friends with 4Runners and they all loved them. The only thing other than changing the oil is changing the timing belt as you've already noted.
#4 is last, but not least. If you want a Tahoe in that year range, I'd go with the 05-06 since they have the electric cooling fans. Either the Yukon or Tahoe is a very reliable vehicle which I'd say rivals the reliability of a Toyota. The great thing about our trucks is that maintenance and repairs are relatively cheap because every shade-tree mechanic can work on one...heck most of us can do just about any repair aside from internal engine or transmission repairs.

Best of luck on your future purchase

EDIT** As for your concerns with the back up camera, you can buy a nice double din radio and have the backup camera installed for less than $300

 

[Vistance]

Yeah, the FJ is a silly one. I still think they look cool, but I realize they're a pretty impractical vehicle for someone who won't be doing any off roading. 4Runners seem nice, so still on my list. FX35 too. RX350 ehh still mixed thoughts.

What about the theft risk? How bad is it and what can I do besides aftermarket alarm to make the Tahoe harder to steal? Also does the 5.3L run ok on regular gas or does it need premium? If I can get regular that will be a nice little savings since all my cars take premium as is.

 

[ajaxnxs]

I'm on my second Denali, my current one is an 04 ( not XL ). I bought it last Dec. and it only had 43K miles on it. So far, other than brakes and tires, I haven't had any issues. My first one was an 02 XL that I bought used that had 19K miles on it. I kept it for 5 years and put another 45K miles on it. During that time, I didn't have one problem with it. I replaced the first one with a Toyota 2008 Toyota Highlander and drove that for 5 years. The Highlander was a great vehicle with no issues what so ever.

Even though the Highlander was rock solid, I kicked myself for ever selling my Denali. I really missed the size and ride of the Denali, a few extra bucks per tankful wasn't enough of a downfall. I spend a lot of time driving so comfort and reliability come first. My previous vehicle was a 99 Suburban that was rock solid as well which was the reason to stay with GM.

All the vehicles you listed are good quality and I wouldn't let a few MPG difference be the reason for your decision. Good luck with your decision.

I got rid of my kon for an 08 highlander also now looking to go back into a kon, denali or escalade

 

[iamdub]

...If you want a Tahoe in that year range, I'd go with the 05-06 since they have the electric cooling fans. Either the Yukon or Tahoe is a very reliable vehicle which I'd say rivals the reliability of a Toyota. The great thing about our trucks is that maintenance and repairs are relatively cheap because every shade-tree mechanic can work on one...heck most of us can do just about any repair aside from internal engine or transmission repairs.

Best of luck on your future purchase

EDIT** As for your concerns with the back up camera, you can buy a nice double din radio and have the backup camera installed for less than $300

This. Although I'd say the GM's accessories and trim are of lower quality and are less reliable than that of imported cars. Also, I was gonna ask if you had considered an extended- or crew-cab truck. The bed would be invaluable when moving in/out of a house, and being a homeowner means annual springtime trips to get landscaping materials and equipment. But, the trucks are longer and have a much larger turning radius than the SUVs.

The only GMT800 SUVs that require high octane fuel are those with the LQ9 engine, which I think is only the Escalades.

 

[Vistance]

This. Although I'd say the GM's accessories and trim are of lower quality and are less reliable than that of imported cars. Also, I was gonna ask if you had considered an extended- or crew-cab truck. The bed would be invaluable when moving in/out of a house, and being a homeowner means annual springtime trips to get landscaping materials and equipment. But, the trucks are longer and have a much larger turning radius than the SUVs.

The only GMT800 SUVs that require high octane fuel are those with the LQ9 engine, which I think is only the Escalades.

Yeah, I did look for a truck but everything I found had much higher miles and very lacking on features. I like luxury stuff, enjoy leather, cushy seats, power everything and the like. Under $12-13k the trucks are either loaded with 200-250k+ miles on them, base model with very spartan features and about 150k miles on them, or very old with a mix between the two and maybe 100-120k miles. Really don't want to buy another car that's as old as my '03 Altima. I'd love a 2010+ something, but they're all just too expensive. Plus there is definitely a factor of wanting what I get to look cool to me. Most trucks aesthetically look like crap to me. A Denali truck or something would be nice, but there goes getting something cheap...also tons of the trucks look like they have been used as intended and worn, I like the idea of getting a vehicle that is capable of all that from someone who rarely ever did it. That Yukon XL was very nice and hadn't been used to tow or haul much of anything, but I was just not ok with 208k miles for $8k.

 

[Vistance]

Ok, so I ruled out the older style FX35. I think it would probably make do for me even though it's not as big, but they have a serious problem with the dashes bubbling and melting and it's $1k+ for the dash plus installation. Nissan dropped the ball on supporting their product, so I'm not really interested in those now despite everything else. I wouldn't mind the newer style that came out in '09 and it has a better 7 speed auto and nicer interior, but the price jumps quite a bit for one of those. So I'm basically down to the 4Runner or Tahoe.

What I am wondering is, how well I could haul stuff with a hatchback? I found a great deal on a 2010 Mazda3 hatch, I love driving manual cars and normally I like my cars pretty powerful. The Mazda3 isn't, but it would be more practical than my Altima and for $7,500 it's very affordable. Next to nothing to worry about reliability wise because they're so simple. A bit more, but I've also seen some VW GTIs in this price range. I love quick cars, while I wouldn't call them fast (My Altima eats up GTIs) they do have the advantage of hauling ability that I don't and they're not that much slower. The Mk6 GTIs (2010-2014) are much better built than the older gen VWs which I fully agree are junk.

I did find a few Silverado/Sierras that looked nice. Most had 150-175k miles on them with the 5.3 around 2008-2009 range. I much prefer the newer style look on the trucks, on the Tahoe I like it too but heard there were quite a bit of reliability issues that came with the '07 and '08. Actually it seems like the most solid years for Tahoes are this generation the 2000-2006 style. Are the Silverado/Sierra trucks also affected by the same reliability issues, or are they less prone to it than the same year Tahoe/Yukon?

Also this is what I meant about security stuff

Can anything be done to prevent this? I'm in the Midwest in a decent area, but I'd like to be confident if I went somewhere else that it couldn't be stolen super easily. I already worry a bit on the Vette because I had to disable the column lock due to stupid issues they have and GM never fixed it proper.

 

[iamdub]

Overall, I feel the "NBS" ('99-early '07) trucks are more reliable than the late-'07+. The newer ones are more refined, but seem to have quite a few corners cut in their parts/materials (dash, electric locks, leaking weather seals...). I prefer the look and feel of the NNBS trucks and SUVs, but I was looking hard at the NBS Yukons and Sierras before I found my Tahoe. I was either going to pay cash for an older one or pay a nice down payment on a newer one, and I was offered a deal too good to pass on my Tahoe. It has the ubiquitous issues as expected, but they're nothing major nor anything I can't fix. I'm quite happy with it. The Tahoe of the previous generation just looks dated by comparison, but is easily and vastly improved with a few easy touches such as a color-matched grille and bumper. Drivetrain- and accessory-wise, I believe they are more solid. Fuel economy may be 1 MPG lower, if not the same as the newer generation. I don't know for sure if the trucks are more or lesser reliable than the SUVs, but I'd say they would be the same for their respective generations.

How well could you haul stuff with a hatchback? Only you can answer that by knowing what you have to haul. Obviously, nothing you've listed will have as much interior payload capacity as a fullsize SUV. But how much and how often are you gonna haul things? My thinking is I'd rather have it and not need it than the other way around. Also, while fullsize trucks/SUVs arent as zippy around town, they're more comfortable than smaller cars and they fare better in collisions. You already have a zippy, more-for-fun-not-comfort car with your 'Vette. I see clean NBS Tahoes and Yukons around me with 130-160K miles for 4-7 grand all the time. I find that the southern market is better for these things or for vehicles in general. Maybe pick up one here if they're cheaper for you and if you find you don't need it after you've moved, you shouldn't have any problems offloading it for a hatchback or whatever later.

 

[abishoff]

3/4 ton GMC or Chevy.


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[Vistance]

I do genuinely like the Tahoe/Yukon, but I'm not seeing any response anywhere online to how easy these are for thieves to jack by breaking the shift lock and putting them into gear. Plus without a column lock, it can be steered easily without the key. Maybe it's a non-issue for most, I guess the odds are low someone might do this but if there's not a fix for this it's going to eliminate this as a possible choice for me. It sounds like GM started working on making them harder to steal around 2010, but that's NNBS and way out of the price range I'm looking to spend. This is really disappointing, GM can make some nice stuff but then they have issues like this that make it hard for me to support them. I love my Vette, but my list of other GMs I like has dwindled as time has gone on and been replaced by Japanese cars.

 

[abishoff]

They have column locks. Even my 96 Chevy has a column lock.


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[Vistance]

They have column locks. Even my 96 Chevy has a column lock.


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There was a point where they removed them because of the security system on them being considered decent enough not to need the column lock anymore. I'm sure the NNBS from '07-'09 didn't have it, but the phrasing I keep seeing sounds like the NBS also didn't have it. OBS I am pretty sure did have it. Would need someone else to confirm?

 

[abishoff]

There was a point where they removed them because of the security system on them being considered decent enough not to need the column lock anymore. I'm sure the NNBS from '07-'09 didn't have it, but the phrasing I keep seeing sounds like the NBS also didn't have it. OBS I am pretty sure did have it. Would need someone else to confirm?

I'll check my 06 Denali when it's get back from the Audio stop.


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[Martinjmpr]

Have you had a lot of cars stolen? Or do you live in an area with a lot of car theft? I'm only asking because in nearly 40 years of car ownership (since 1979) I can honestly say that this has never been a factor I've considered when shopping for a vehicle.

As far as your choices go, I currently own an 04 Suburban and previously owned an 07 4runner.

The 4runner was a great vehicle and I loved it, but it didn't quite have enough power or enough room for pulling our trailer and hauling all our stuff on camping trips. The V6 models have a slick "multi mode" 4wd system that lets you run in 2wd, 4wd with a center differential (basically full time 4wd or AWD), or 4wd with a locked center differential (conventional 4wd) for off road. At 236hp the V6 isn't a powerhouse but it's decent if you're not pulling a trailer (and honestly, lots of people pull trailers with them, I just found it to be "marginal" in terms of power when pulling our 2000# travel trailer across the country.) The V8 is nice but the V8 also gives you full time 4wd with no way to put it in 2wd. MPG on my V6 4runner typically ran 15 - 16 in town and on the highway - not towing - 20+ was fairly easy to achieve. With a 23 gallon tank that led to a decent range.

Pulling the trailer was a different story, MPG rarely exceeded 11 - 12. To put it another way, I've gotten better MPG with my V8 Suburban when pulling the trailer, as high as 14 on long highway trips.

Is there any reason you left the Nissan R51 Pathfinder (2005 - 2012 I believe) off your list? The Pathfinder of that generation was a body-on-frame SUV that was a bit longer than the 4runner and most models had 3 rows of seats. It had a larger interior compartment and would certainly be a great suburban vehicle. Unlike the 4runner which had a solid rear axle, the Pathfinder had independent rear suspension. The Pathy also had a more powerful 4.0l V6 than the 4runner. Unlike the Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban of that era, the Pathfinder had a 5 speed auto.

There were some models that had a V8 (the one pictured has a V8) and the 4wd V8 models had full time 4wd.

I sometimes think if I had gotten an R51 Pathfinder instead of a Suburban I might still have it since the more powerful V6 engine would have made pulling our trailer easier.

IMO one of the biggest drawbacks to the 4runner is the dreaded "Toyota Tax" that you pay for one. An R51 Pathfinder would give you many of the pluses of the 4runner without paying the Toyota Tax.

 

[Vistance]

Have you had a lot of cars stolen? Or do you live in an area with a lot of car theft? I'm only asking because in nearly 40 years of car ownership (since 1979) I can honestly say that this has never been a factor I've considered when shopping for a vehicle.

As far as your choices go, I currently own an 04 Suburban and previously owned an 07 4runner.

The 4runner was a great vehicle and I loved it, but it didn't quite have enough power or enough room for pulling our trailer and hauling all our stuff on camping trips. The V6 models have a slick "multi mode" 4wd system that lets you run in 2wd, 4wd with a center differential (basically full time 4wd or AWD), or 4wd with a locked center differential (conventional 4wd) for off road. At 236hp the V6 isn't a powerhouse but it's decent if you're not pulling a trailer (and honestly, lots of people pull trailers with them, I just found it to be "marginal" in terms of power when pulling our 2000# travel trailer across the country.) The V8 is nice but the V8 also gives you full time 4wd with no way to put it in 2wd. MPG on my V6 4runner typically ran 15 - 16 in town and on the highway - not towing - 20+ was fairly easy to achieve. With a 23 gallon tank that led to a decent range.

Pulling the trailer was a different story, MPG rarely exceeded 11 - 12. To put it another way, I've gotten better MPG with my V8 Suburban when pulling the trailer, as high as 14 on long highway trips.

Is there any reason you left the Nissan R51 Pathfinder (2005 - 2012 I believe) off your list? The Pathfinder of that generation was a body-on-frame SUV that was a bit longer than the 4runner and most models had 3 rows of seats. It had a larger interior compartment and would certainly be a great suburban vehicle. Unlike the 4runner which had a solid rear axle, the Pathfinder had independent rear suspension. The Pathy also had a more powerful 4.0l V6 than the 4runner. Unlike the Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban of that era, the Pathfinder had a 5 speed auto.

There were some models that had a V8 (the one pictured has a V8) and the 4wd V8 models had full time 4wd.

I sometimes think if I had gotten an R51 Pathfinder instead of a Suburban I might still have it since the more powerful V6 engine would have made pulling our trailer easier.

IMO one of the biggest drawbacks to the 4runner is the dreaded "Toyota Tax" that you pay for one. An R51 Pathfinder would give you many of the pluses of the 4runner without paying the Toyota Tax.

Well, I normally don't think about it so much (theft) other than I know Escalades have a horrible theft problem relative to basically anything. Since the Tahoe/Yukon share a platform, it sounds like they're equally as susceptible if a tad less desirable. Wouldn't normally be a thought for me, but insurance will no doubt go up on something like these due to that.

I hadn't really thought of the Pathfinder mostly because I didn't really care for the looks. I really don't need the off road capability or towing power of any of these big utes, I just kind of like the look. Practically speaking, a crossover or something is probably more sensible. Wouldn't cut it for those of you who tow but I don't tow nor plan to tow hardly anything. I'm not going on a trail or anything either. I just can't find any wagons that are reliable or appealing to me. I agree about the higher prices on Toyota, but it seems to be with good reason. I found a 5th Gen 4Runner for $16k, not crazy about 160k miles on it but it has leather and is an SR5. I like the looks too. 4th Gen 4Runners seem fine I just can't find one with my required side curtain airbags. I've thought too about a 2010+ MDX or RX350, I feel these two can be sort of associated as girly utes but they seem highly practical for my intended use. The FX35 was also one I liked, but the '03-'08 have horrid dash problems and they're always inevitable. '09+ have better transmission and interior, but next to impossible to find in my area even if I raise the price quite a bit.

So I'm somewhere between a 2010+ MDX or RX350, a 4th gen V6 4Runner, or a 5th gen 4Runner if I can find one (They're scarce in this price range of under $17k).