No crank/start/anything condition with radio also in locked mode.

[M1Gunner]

Have you tried putting the vehicle in neutral and starting it? A faulty neutral safety switch could cause this as well.

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

I had gone through your wiring diagrams, the one related to the starting circuit specifically, and saw a few things I have to investigate. The neutral safety switch being one of them. There is also another ground up on the passenger side frame that I should look at.
If I have to, I'll rewire everything through a bank of rocker switches like the race car. I'm hoping (and thinking) that it won't come to that.
Speaking of racing, I was talking with one of my racing buddies yesterday and asked what happens when you transplant one of these engines into a different chassis altogether? Take the engine, all of the accessories and the PCM and get them to work in a 66 Impala (as an example). There's a lot of work that would to be done in the PCM for that to happen. If I had that expertise and tooling, figuring this out would be easy.

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

By the way, that starting circuit schematic has been very helpful. Is there one that's similar that shows all of the circuits related to the ignition switch?
Despite coming back to a truck (after two weeks away) and finding all electrics dead, I can't help but think that replacing the ignition switch as I did, hasn't complicated things and created a new problem compounding the intermittent electrical short that started this whole thing in the first place.

 

[PG01]

Throwing this out there, did you check the fuse block underhood, start run relay, etc for corrosion.... do they pull apart on nbs’s? I don’t remember .... just an idea

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

Checked all of the fuses and relays. Flipped the fuse block upside down to look for possible problems there as well. From a corrosion standpoint, everything looks good. Any testing I've done done (as in jumping over the negative cable with a booster cable from the battery to the block), adding a firewall to block wire or removing , cleaning and reinstalling several grounds, have resulted in no change.
Seeing as I can "hot wire" the starter and get the engine to crank indicates to me that the power and ground circuits to that point are sound.
I still have another grounding point (that I'm aware of) that I'll check later today. Considering the original problem was intermittent in nature still leads me to think that it's a loose connection somewhere. But now with this latest no start condition, I can't even get back to that point.
Thanks for the suggestions just the same.

 

[swathdiver]

For $300 you can buy your own Tech2, an indispensable tool in working on these trucks. Within minutes it can find the sources to your problems. Multiple codes have been thrown based on the descriptions given but we need at the least a scan tool that can read the chassis and bcm in addition to the engine and drivetrain.

Where do you live? Maybe there's a member nearby who can help?

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

I've got a scan tool although it's not a Tech 2. And from what GM tells me, when I visited their service counter and spoke with a senior tech, that I've disconnected the battery along the way and also re and re'd the PCM, any codes would be lost. That's what with my scanner says too.
Interestingly, prior to all of this no start condition, my scanner would not demonstrate any trouble codes despite the check engine light being on. I do have a CAN bus compatible scanner so in that regard, I don't know what was going on.
I do agree however, that perhaps getting onto some software that can open the PCM, (whether a GM Tech 2 scanner can do that I'm told isn't likely) would be of infinite assistance.
I have the option of towing the truck to one of the local "tuner" shops that specialize in adapting the modern engine platforms into older infrastructure. Whether they can help or not, I haven't investigated. I still haven't given up on finding the cause and the remedy myself.
Thanks for replying. I'm interested in any and all responses.

 

[swathdiver]

With all that's going on I doubt that your PCM (Engine control Module) is the problem. Your BCM (Body Control Module) is where the codes we're looking for will likely reside. When they set, they do not light up the dash light. As mentioned earlier, could also be in the chassis or other modules.

Get it to someone well trained and experienced with your old truck and who has the Tech2 as well.

There's a code for everything now, when you're truck got squirrely when it went over the bump, it set an internal code, probably a ground fault code.

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

It's finding someone that's proving difficult. I am little wary of the dealership. At $180+/hr, it wouldn't take a technician long to rack up enough time for me to purchase a replacement vehicle altogether.
I'm in agreement with ground fault and BCM. Most symptoms point to that. I've only muddied the waters by replacing the ignition switch. That it was completely drained after two weeks of sitting was the real surprise as it had sat for that length of time several times before without issue.
Maybe it was struck by lightning....

 

[swathdiver]

Well, for less than two hours labor, you can buy your own Tech2 and save a fortune:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...lgo_pvid=44838909-5233-4d96-a5f0-32821f5d41bd

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

$350 CDN actually plus brokerage but I see your point. I hadn't shopped at the U.S. on-line retailer. Nearest thing I found on a Canadian sight was on Amazon. That's $550.

https://www.amazon.ca/popular-GM-Ve...UTF8&qid=1507424550&sr=8-5&keywords=GM+tech+2

Not even certain if this would be of any assistance or not.
I'd thought about purchasing my own scanner but there was something the GM tech said not be able to retrieve codes once the unit(s) have been removed but I'm not 100% sure I'm in agreement. Might be something lost in translation.

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

By way of an update, seeing as I can bypass the start enable relay and get the to turn over and bypass the fuel pump relay and initiate the pump (or at least hear it) is leading me to believe the current problem is something I've created with my testing. The ignition switch and associated wiring specifically. I've got to get schematics of the ignition wiring and how it relates to circuits the switch energizes. I've got some of it but need to dig around and find the rest.

 

[M1Gunner]

I wonder if your ignition lock cylinder and ignition switch are a tooth off. Thus, not turning forward enough to engage the starting system and when you turn it to the off position it's not completely off and partially supplying power to the accessory position for example.

I'd double/triple check to make sure they're indexed correctly. They're easily installed out of sync.

You may have solved your initial issue with the installation of a new ignition switch while simultaneously causing another.

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

I had thought about the indexing and it's very difficult to tell what's aligned and what isn't. That said, with the switch itself removed from the lock cylinder assembly, I can rotate the "gear" portion. There is a segment in the rotation where the momentary contact (or spring loaded to return) of the switch is engaged. This would be the start position. In this position, nothing happens just as when the switch is installed where it's supposed to be.
I have access to some additional drawings and when time allows (I'm only home for a few days out of a month) I take a stab at it.
Yes, I'm in agreement with while fixing one problem, I may have created another although the initial problem (the intermittent issue) became something more encompassing (complete electrical failure) seemingly all on it's own.
Thought's on a TECH 2 scanner? Would that instrument give me any insights into what is or isn't connected or is it as I suspect, simply a way of reading codes albeit with a little more depth than a simple CAN bus type scanner. I'm not into spending the $550 CDN for something that isn't going to be of any benefit.
Again as always, I thank everyone whose taken the time to reply. It all helps.

 

[M1Gunner]

Well the deal with the ignition switch is that it must be properly indexed before sliding it back up into and locking it into its housing on the steering column. If the white gear of the switch is not indexed properly before installation then it wouldn't matter if you were turning the lock cylinder or just a long flat tip screw driver in place of the lock cylinder. They would both be doing the same thing and you wouldn't be getting the complete swing or function of the ignition switch itself.

I Hope I said that in a way that makes sense...

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

Perfect sense.
It's think it's my description that was a little unclear. With the plastic switch removed form the lock cylinder (and with the wiring harness attached) I can rotate the white gear and not effect any change on the dash. Obviously there's more to it than I had guessed.
At any rate, it's an issue that will need looking into. As I said, I've tried several different positions of the key relative to where the white gear is on the plastic switch, all with no success. Doesn't mean it doesn't work, I just haven't found the right relationship between the two. Of course when going back over my re and re procedure, I neglected to remember what position the key was in originally. That would have immensely helpful.
Thanks again.

 

[retiredsparky]

How did you operate the start relay? Did you provide a ground and 12 V + or just the +? (The PCM normally provides the ground for the start enable relay).

 

[Alberta Tahoe]

The PCM provides the ground to drive the relay coil (across 85 and 86).
The removed the relay altogether and supplied 12 volts to the terminal 30 socket (the output from the relay to the starter solenoid).

 

[inmypassatlife]

I'm in the same situation, well almost. My 2001 left me stranded, luckily at a gas station near work. Security light had been flashing nonstop. Figured after a few hours it was the Passlock system and had her towed home (free thru insurance). Then ordered the ignition cylinder and the sensor housing. Got it installed and nothing. Damn thing doesn't go into relearn mode....whether I wait 10mins, 30mins, or an hour the light doesn't stop blinking. It's so damn frustrating to me.

I removed the aftermarket bypass for the remote start and pretty much started from scratch. Nothing's worked. I at one point last night smacked the BCM with the back of my hand and all the dash lights I usually get at startup came on, I waited 15mins and the security light never turned off or went solid. I cranked it and it turned on and died out a second later as the theft deterrent is supposed to.

So, me and a few of my old car audio installer buddies, including the guy I bought it off of think it's the BCM at this point. Removed it. It looks good, no solder joint breaks, but who knows. I'm going to swap it out anyways.

Tried all the efforts to remove power like remove the battery, put both batt cables together, and to remove the TBC fuse from under the dash. Nothing, I still just get crank but immediate shut off. I'm only $75 into it with parts. I ordered a BCM that should be here Tuesday from Amazon, it was $120. There were cheaper with a core return that would have been like $77, but it would be a week before it arrives. I'll update y'all then.

 

[PG01]

I remem my bil 97 malibu did this on my driveway i feel like it was something with the remote un locking the doors then locking again ... he had aftermarket keyless entry, not so much an alarm but just a remote fob for keyless but it went into theft passlock or someshit... just ideas