BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[PPK_]

I’m surprised that the engine oil filter didn’t pick up more of what is visible in your photo.

The engine has 9k on it now and we have really nothing in the drain, magnetic filter or the filter… i think i am on oil filter/ oil #6.

You can look at the photo… and see the trail of material as the drain dumped from the edge of the bucket.. to the middle.

I showed it to gmc dealer on my first free oil change.. he said wow. There is nothing they can do till the motor is making noises.

Oh well.. i had a ‘17 ecopoop that took five oil pans… but that is the world we have now. Quality is now out… of favor.

I do know from work… you need clean oil for a machine/engine/gearbox to last..

 

[Marky Dissod]

You can look at the photo and see the trail of material as the drain dumped from the edge of the bucket to the middle.
I showed it to gmc dealer on my first free oil change. He said wow. There is nothing they can do till the motor is making noises.

If you're going to stop at the dealer, you know what's likely going to happen - this engine will eventually fail.
Obviously it SHOULD get replaced, per warranty. The replacement engine should get an extended warranty, because duhr.

I'm of the opinion that you ought to store a small amount of each used oil drain, to have evidence to show exactly what your GMC dealer did not consider actionable.
It's deeply disappointing that your GMC dealer is going to wait until 'the motor is making noises'. GM is apparently not willing to reinvest in their reputation.

(May I suggest looking for and buying two GMT800s, a GMT800 & a GMT900, or two GMT900s? They're far more reliable than the GMT-T1xx, clearly.)

 

[Vladimir2306]

What I think he meant was that any vehicle sold here new must meet USA CAFE standards; regardless of where the manufacturer is based.

joe

I meant that if 0-20 oil were needed solely for passing CAFE standards, and for nothing else, then it would not be used in other countries where there is no CAFE. And this oil and even more liquid ones are used all over the world, and very successfully.

 

[Vladimir2306]

You want to upset, but you don't upset, you disappoint. Your translator needs upgrades. It has already misunderstood mistranslated me to you, and you to me.
Having said that ...
These other carmakers that are NOT GM are using tighter tolerances and clearances, so that 0W20 makes a little bit more sense for them, than for GM.
GM is still using Gen3 V8 tolerances and clearances on their Gen5 V8 while using 0W20.
If they had built their engines with better quality control, MAYBE they could get away with 0w20 like they did in the past, ok.
BUT
Clearly they tried to save too much money putting together the L87. Even 0w40 will not fix or protect mistakes as dumb as the L87 assembly errors.
There's literally swarf at the bottom of the oil pan. The proof of GM's penny pinching is literally sitting in the oil pan.

The issue is not really about GM's tolerances and clearances, they are just normal. The problem is that GM itself does not comply with its own standards for engine assembly. I have already provided photos and measurement results here. Where there should be a gap, it simply isn't there. The piston moves in the cylinder by touching the cylinder wall. The piston wedges inside the cylinder, which causes the production of metal particles, which further damage the crankshaft and liners. So yes, the issue is not the 0-20 and CAFE oil, but the issue is the disgusting build quality of the L87 engine.

 

[Vladimir2306]

i cannot explain how a brand new engine has this much in the first drain.... GM is not cleaning... tooling shot... among other items.... it is terrible. i have seen it... 500 mile... yukon.

What can we talk about if the connecting rod liners are already damaged on the new engine out of the box, the crankshaft is already scratched, and there are already scuff marks on the Teflon piston, that's just 500 miles away, and this creates a metallic powder.

 

[mountie]

What can we talk about if the connecting rod liners are already damaged on the new engine out of the box, the crankshaft is already scratched, and there are already scuff marks on the Teflon piston, that's just 500 miles away, and this creates a metallic powder.

Genuine GM dealer prep…..

 

[PPK_]

If you're going to stop at the dealer, you know what's likely going to happen - this engine will eventually fail.
Obviously it SHOULD get replaced, per warranty. The replacement engine should get an extended warranty, because duhr.

I'm of the opinion that you ought to store a small amount of each used oil drain, to have evidence to show exactly what your GMC dealer did not consider actionable.
It's deeply disappointing that your GMC dealer is going to wait until 'the motor is making noises'. GM is apparently not willing to reinvest in their reputation.

(May I suggest looking for and buying two GMT800s, a GMT800 & a GMT900, or two GMT900s? They're far more reliable than the GMT-T1xx, clearly.)

i did have a 2005 Yukon SLT... it went 85k.. before hvac and oil leaks in the front differential.. and a little oil burning. i paid $35k for it... i did not find its efficiency or lack issues to be that great. although on the website here.. they supposed are better thought of than what i think on my yukon at that time.

i have a 72k and 72 month gm warranty on my '24 yukon and '25 1500. So far... this yukon has had it's left rear half shaft replaced. leaking on the outboard seal. at 9k miles.. with oil in the engine and bad half shaft... not that great. but with the new half shaft.. goes down the interstate without the rumble of a bad shaft..

 

[homesick]

i did have a 2005 Yukon SLT... it went 85k.. before hvac and oil leaks in the front differential.. and a little oil burning. i paid $35k for it... i did not find its efficiency or lack issues to be that great. although on the website here.. they supposed are better thought of than what i think on my yukon at that time.

i have a 72k and 72 month gm warranty on my '24 yukon and '25 1500. So far... this yukon has had it's left rear half shaft replaced. leaking on the outboard seal. at 9k miles.. with oil in the engine and bad half shaft... not that great. but with the new half shaft.. goes down the interstate without the rumble of a bad shaft..

That's some damned awful luck. You got the only GMT800 that wasn't perfect.

joe

 

[jfoj]

My GMT800 is 20 years old with 275,000 miles. Still take it on 6 hour trips often. I need to drop the oil pan and replace the oil pickup O-rings because the oil pressure is low when cold, but holds 45 PSI on the 6 hour trips once warmed up.

The L87 internal pictures posted up are no why they are failing. While not ideal condition for a new engine, the bearing failures are due to other issues, mostly design and part choice based.

 

[BacDoc]

EVERY carmaker that sells ANY vehicle(s) in the continental U.S. is subject to CAFE MpG test scoring. Any oil 'thinner' than 5W30 exists to game the CAFE tests.Stribeck curve ...
It's also true that in slightly subfreezing weather I can easily withstand up to an entire hour in nothing but a sweater jeans and flipflops,
so long as I get back inside before the hour's up, without suffering any PERMANENT issues. Just 'cause I CAN, does NOT mean I should have, ever.
(If I ever have any kids I will NEVER let them see me do it.)

Any engine that works or plays HARD, will be better off using 5w30 than anything thinner.
Engines that spec 0w20 in the continental U.S., spec 5w30 in most other countries.

I and many others willingly sacrifice 2MpG for better engine protection without hesitation.
If an engine fails to hit 200,000 miles SOMEBODY did SOMETHING WRONG.

ON THE OTHER HAND
IF ANY carmaker pinches pennies so hard, that their engines can only hit 150,000 miles with 0w40 / 5w40, that carmaker SHOULD lose customers' trust for decades.

Good analogy with the sweater and jeans!
Just because you can do it doesn’t make it the best way to do it.

I have a patient who is 94 years old and in pretty good shape for his age.
I was telling him that if he drinks more water it might help his overall health.
His response to me was “ the only water I drink is about this much ( he puts his thumb and first finger almost together) in my scotch and that’s the only water I have been drinking for the last 40 years”

He is 94, active and in better shape than most 70 year old guys so I don’t know how much difference hydration makes for him - definitely better but worth the effort? Probably not in his situation but that doesn’t mean you should limit water intake to live to be 90

Another example of how you can do it but it’s not the best strategy for most cases.

 

[mountie]

Good analogy with the sweater and jeans!
Just because you can do it doesn’t make it the best way to do it.

I have a patient who is 94 years old and in pretty good shape for his age.
I was telling him that if he drinks more water it might help his overall health.
His response to me was “ the only water I drink is about this much ( he puts his thumb and first finger almost together) in my scotch and that’s the only water I have been drinking for the last 40 years”

He is 94, active and in better shape than most 70 year old guys so I don’t know how much difference hydration makes for him - definitely better but worth the effort? Probably not in his situation but that doesn’t mean you should limit water intake to live to be 90

Another example of how you can do it but it’s not the best strategy for most cases.

Drinking lots of water flushes your system while also being hydrated. ( Helps to keep your bladder & colon clear )…. I drink water all the time. I just turned 70, and at 6’2” / 186 lbs, my doctor thinks I’m still 28 years old. I take zero meds…… don’t need them…..

( Rule of thumb : If your urine color is like lemon aid, you are hydrated….. If it looks like apple juice color, you are dehydrated.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Good analogy with the sweater and jeans!
Just because you can do it doesn’t make it the best way to do it.

As a kid, I always wondered why so many Russians in my neighborhood would wear sweatpants a sleeveless t-shirt sandals and jewelry around their necks in subfreezing weather for HOURS.
Figured it meant I could get away with ONE hour. My Mom set me pretty much straight:
Dress warm, son. You never know when a girl / woman / lady may be in need of extra warmth. Offer her one of your extra layers.
You'll be fine, she'll appreciate it one way or another, she'll notice your constitution can handle it, and even if she doesn't warm to you personally,
she'll have something nice to say about you to others. Be more prepared than you need to be, if you can.

Moral of that story so far as motor oil goes: 5w30 or 0w30. 0w20 is too close to the margins.

I have a patient who is 94 years old and in pretty good shape for his age.
I was telling him that if he drinks more water it might help his overall health.
His response to me was “ the only water I drink is about this much (he puts his thumb and first finger almost together) in my scotch,
and that’s the only water I have been drinking for the last 40 years”

He is 94, active and in better shape than most 70 year old guys so I don’t know how much difference hydration makes for him - definitely better but worth the effort? Probably not in his situation but that doesn’t mean you should limit water intake to live to be 90.

Another example of how you can do it but it’s not the best strategy for most cases.

If he gets / keeps enough water from his diet, doesn't shed much water to his environment, and doesn't need to detox from anything other than alcohol (which always has some H2O), he doesn't LITERALLY need to drink too much H2O.
Should still drink more, but maybe he drank plenty of H2O prior to the last 40 years, who knows ...

Closest thing I have to a 'religion' as most of you would see it, is chance/likelihood/probability.
If you take the minimum number of chances possible, that's actually the riskiest life strategy in the EXTREME long run, but / so ...
Whatever it is you're gonna do (or not do), improve your odds whenever you can.
As a result most of my friends tend to find me more prepared than they are for contingencies, the unexpected, emergencies, etc.
To quit blathering, again, moral of that story so far as motor oil goes: 5w30 or 0w30.

 

[Vladimir2306]

My GMT800 is 20 years old with 275,000 miles. Still take it on 6 hour trips often. I need to drop the oil pan and replace the oil pickup O-rings because the oil pressure is low when cold, but holds 45 PSI on the 6 hour trips once warmed up.

The L87 internal pictures posted up are no why they are failing. While not ideal condition for a new engine, the bearing failures are due to other issues, mostly design and part choice based.

No, of course, the photos that I posted are not the cause of the breakdown. The reason for the breakdown is different. Of all the things that rub into the engine, it creates metal shavings, which in turn begins to accelerate the damage to the liners and crankshaft, and this is a vicious circle.
Even if you put in stronger liners than those on the L87, it still starts to damage them, because engine oil works as an abrasive. And now this abrasive destroys the engine.

 

[blanchard7684]

No, of course, the photos that I posted are not the cause of the breakdown. The reason for the breakdown is different. Of all the things that rub into the engine, it creates metal shavings, which in turn begins to accelerate the damage to the liners and crankshaft, and this is a vicious circle.
Even if you put in stronger liners than those on the L87, it still starts to damage them, because engine oil works as an abrasive. And now this abrasive destroys the engine.

Vladimir,

Respectfully, this is a "creative" take on the L87 engine failure.

Even GM has isolated the cause to a crankshaft and bearing manufacturing issue. Piston to cylinder tolerance hasn't been implicated.

For example and reference, here is a detailed teardown of a Toyota 3.5 V6 that died at 70,000 miles with perhaps the most obscene piston skirt wear ever seen in a factory engine.

Spoiler alert: the engine bearings were like new.

Fast forward to 34 minute mark.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Vladimir,

Respectfully, this is a "creative" take on the L87 engine failure.

Even GM has isolated the cause to a crankshaft and bearing manufacturing issue. Piston to cylinder tolerance hasn't been implicated.

For example and reference, here is a detailed teardown of a Toyota 3.5 V6 that died at 70,000 miles with perhaps the most obscene piston skirt wear ever seen in a factory engine.

Spoiler alert: the engine bearings were like new.

Fast forward to 34 minute mark.

I hope you didn't believe GM's explanation?)
This is not a creative view. This is an observation of how the engines behave before the breakdown. We don't have a GM warranty, we have to help ourselves, we've learned how to check the liners and crankshaft condition without removing the engine. And we open the engines before the engine is destroyed.
As for GM's explanation, if that were the case, they would have changed both the crankshaft and the liners in the 2025 engine. but no, they are the same. and L87 2025 is still out of service as well as 2021-2024.

 

[blanchard7684]

I hope you didn't believe GM's explanation?)
This is not a creative view. This is an observation of how the engines behave before the breakdown. We don't have a GM warranty, we have to help ourselves, we've learned how to check the liners and crankshaft condition without removing the engine. And we open the engines before the engine is destroyed.
As for GM's explanation, if that were the case, they would have changed both the crankshaft and the liners in the 2025 engine. but no, they are the same. and L87 2025 is still out of service as well as 2021-2024.

Dave’s auto on YouTube showed an l87 crank that is part of the recall with an ra/rz ratio way out of range from normal accepted machining practices and standards.

So yeah Gm’s theory has more than a bit of plausibility.

Secondly, if your theory were true, the failure rate would be the same. Everyone can see that the failure rate has been way down since the recall ; and yes everyone can also agree the failure rate is too high still.

But addressing the rotating assembly as a top priority has shown improvement.

Third, your own teardown pictures don’t show piston damage that would support the piston fitment to be a major variable.

The pistons would have to look as bad as the above reference example in the video.

And yet even then the filtration system would be implicated as letting the debris through .

Either that or Toyota specs their oil filters with a 10,000 beta value ( 10 times more stringent than food service).

 

[Vladimir2306]

Dave’s auto on YouTube showed an l87 crank that is part of the recall with an ra/rz ratio way out of range from normal accepted machining practices and standards.

So yeah Gm’s theory has more than a bit of plausibility.

Secondly, if your theory were true, the failure rate would be the same. Everyone can see that the failure rate has been way down since the recall ; and yes everyone can also agree the failure rate is too high still.

But addressing the rotating assembly as a top priority has shown improvement.

Third, your own teardown pictures don’t show piston damage that would support the piston fitment to be a major variable.

The pistons would have to look as bad as the above reference example in the video.

And yet even then the filtration system would be implicated as letting the debris through .

Either that or Toyota specs their oil filters with a 10,000 beta value ( 10 times more stringent than food service).

Our service also studied the hardness of the crankshaft, and indeed the L87 crankshaft is softer than the generally accepted standards for hardening crankshaft metal. But, there is an interesting feature, the same guys checked the hardness of the crankshafts L84, L83, and L86))) and you know what? they are as soft as the L87, but on the L83, L84, L86 the crankshaft with such hardness goes without problems, and on the L87 it breaks)
Where does the information about the failure rate come from? GM used to hide this information during periods 21-24, and is hiding it now. We have no point in hiding it, and our services confirm that 2025 began to appear with the same frequency as cars before, moreover, they have already opened and disassembled the new engine in 2025, it is absolutely the same as mine from May 2024, even worse assembled, with a lot of garbage inside.
My photos of piston damage on the new engine out of the box, it hasn't driven a single mile yet. My Porsches looked really bad after the engine failure.

 

[homesick]

Vladimir,

Respectfully, this is a "creative" take on the L87 engine failure.

Even GM has isolated the cause to a crankshaft and bearing manufacturing issue. Piston to cylinder tolerance hasn't been implicated.

For example and reference, here is a detailed teardown of a Toyota 3.5 V6 that died at 70,000 miles with perhaps the most obscene piston skirt wear ever seen in a factory engine.

Spoiler alert: the engine bearings were like new.

Fast forward to 34 minute mark.

The 3.0 V6 in Mama's '02 Toyota was part of a recall, brought on by a class-action suit.

joe

 

[shb500777]

Update on my end...

Wife told me car was "smelling like something on fire" after driving home from work this week (15 minute drive).

Crawled underneath expecting to find a shopping bag on the exhaust... Found oil coating most of the passenger undercarriage.

Checked dipstick, dry. No low oil light, motor didn't sound abnormal.

Towed to dealership today. Light "drips" of oil over the driveway.

EDIT: 2024 Yukon XL Denali at 30,900 miles. "Recall repair" for L87 completed last November.

 

[tagexpcom]

Saw this today - it's not just L87s / GMC with issues. This affects a lot of vehicles!

Here some key points from the article - https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifesty...-f-150-pickup-trucks-over-transmission-issues - ....

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it had received reports from drivers that the trucks faced an unexpected transmission downshift that came without warning or driver input. The auto regulator said drivers reported that the issue was often accompanied by a temporary rear-wheel lockup or skidding that increases the risk of a crash.

In its response to NHTSA's information request, Ford said the alleged defect in the 2015–2017 F-150s differs from the issue that prompted four safety recalls covering 2011–2014 models. .