BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[blanchard7684]

@fredtufts

0W20 is adequate and clearly works in most cases. But again 0W20 was developed for better fuel efficiency not necessarily better engine protection. Not many things that offer better fuel economy tend to be durable and long living or help with the overall reliability of the engine or now the automatic transmission with Ultra Low Viscosity automatic transmission fluids.

Part of the problem is the auto manufacturers cannot just change things that the engines/vehicles were certified with by the EPA or even when it comes to safety. In a way I am surprised the EPA allows Remote Starting if they are so worried about fuel economy and emissions!

So based on some SAE research it appears that 0W20 was developed mainly for increases in fuel economy but to try and keep the same basic protection of 5W30. So 5W30 does not have much of a jump in HTHS (High Temp/High Sheer) when compared to 0W20. There is a difference, it is just not much. If you want a jump in HTHS, the next step is 0W40. I have not compared to 10W30, but the problem is so much of today's engines are now "hydraulically" controlled for valvetrain timing and behavior, I feel that the 0 weights are less likely to cause any unusual behavior with the valvetrain control.

As I have stated many times, after running a bunch of data logging on my 2024 6.2l Yukon Denali XL, I found it concerning how often and for how long the engine loading at lower RPM's pushed the engine loads into the 70-100% range while cruising on the highway. 0W20 was able to handle it, but probably in more ideal conditions. Once fuel contaminates any oil, it viscosity and cushioning ability decreases. As an owner/driver, you cannot really tell if and how badly the oil may be fuel contaminated. Fuel contamination of the engine oil is a fact of life more so with Direct Injection engines. It can happen with port injection and turbo engines as well.

Bearing loading and oiling tends to be challenged either with extremely high RPM's or under high engine loading, especially at lower RPM where you are close to lugging the engine. Towing is also an extreme sport, while I have not experimented with the Tow Mode on my truck, I have to assume the TCM (Transmission Control Module) behavior is changed to delay shifting until higher RPM's and to not put the engine under constant heavy loads at lower RPM's. I know from towing with my 2005 6.0l Yukon even an empty enclosed trailer how much the air resistance will load the vehicle. Getting around 10 MPH when towing with anything is not unusual.

I just think the 6.2l with the TCM programming trying to squeeze 21-22 MPG out of 6000 brick is pushing the limits on the oil if it is not 100% fresh. I also think that the 0W20 is more likely to be consumed much quicker than 0W40 and once oil consumption as started, the oil supply is lower, so less cooling, less tolerable to fuel contamination, faster to break down because of just level volume. As a good friend of mine from the EPA used to say all the time, "The solution to pollution is dilution". So you need more oil to dilute the fuel in the sump, less oil in the sump the fuel dilution has a greater impact.

There are cases of small turbo charged Honda engines diluting the oil with so much fuel that there are 1-2 more quarts of oil/fuel mix in the crankcase. Why do these engines not fail at the rate of the 6.2l? I believe it is because the vehicles are much lighter and the engines are not put under extreme Low RPM/High Load conditions under normal driving conditions. Sure the turbo gets hot and needs to be oiled, but at the end of the day, driving a lighter Honda around town and on the highway without putting your foot hard into the throttle probably keeps the engine loading under 50% most of the time.

Totally different animals and operating conditions. We are driving small school buses that the engine rarely operates above 1700 RPM unless accelerating or passing. The higher 3000-4000 RPM's are actually easier on the engine bearings, especially with the 2 stage oil pump where the engine oil pressure jumps to around 70-80 PSI somewhere around 3000-3500 RPM.

I am just not comfortable with anything other that 0W40 in my engine, GM has come out and pretty much indicated there is not a problem running this oil in these engines based on what the Camero and Corvette uses as well as what he NHTSA Recall 25V274 states. I was aware before the Recall was announced that 0W40 would cause no negative effects to pretty much any engine speced for 0W20.

With the power output density of these modern day engines with Higher Compression Ratios, Direct Injection, Low Speed Pre Ignition problems and higher operating temperatures changing the oil often and running something higher is viscosity than 0W20 engine oil is clearly in my bag of tricks. Changing oil at 50% of the OLM is my recommendation. Some may say this is a waste, but even if your main and rod bearings survive, the roller lifter are NEXT in line to be a problem. This is why clean oil with lower fuel dilution is critical to modern engines. While you can analyze the oil all day long and have it say you can run to 10-15k oil change increments, you are paying $40-$60 for the oil analysis, why not put that money toward more frequent oil changes to keep the engine cleaner and eliminate higher percentage of fuel dilution in the oil.

Also consider something other than the 0W40 Mobil 1 Supercar oil, it is expensive. While there are plenty of other good 0W40 oils on the market that may not be "Officially" Dexos approved, check and see if the oil vendor you like has Dexos approved oils, if they do, they know what is required for Dexos approval but may choose for many reasons not to get their 0W40 approved due to costs, demand and other factors. The main thing the oil needs is a lower Sodium level to help with the reduction of Low Speed Pre Ignition. I am sure you can search and find someone that has performed an oil analysis on non Dexos approved 0W40 and you will be able to see the sodium level. Of buy 1 quart of an oil you would consider using and send a sample for analysis and see what the additive pack values look like. Probably cost you around $50-$65, far less than a full oil change of Mobil 1 Super Car oil.

fantastic post.

Thank you...

 

[jfoj]

Anyone have a preferred 0W40 other than the super car Mobil 1? Thoughts on Pennzoil ultra platinum?

This is my recommendation and what I plan on running unless something comes up in the oil analysis that tells be otherwise. I like the amount of Moly that the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum offers, this a good thing for both bearings and roller lifter/needle bearings.

Sure, it is NOT Dexos approved, but I am not worried about this.

Pennzoil clear knows how to make a Dexos approved oil, just look at their lower tier oils. The overwhelming issue for oil producers is the cost to have the Dexos oil tested, the fact the oil vendor needs to provide the formulation and the fact that there are licensing fees for each quart of oil sold. Many of the top tier oils do not sell at the rate of the mid tier oils and the oil vendors do not want to surrender their top tier oil formulas or additive pack info to a 3rd party. Its almost like name brand vs generic drugs, not 100% the same but similar.

GM may have improved something with the lifters, but there is only so much they can improve on. Clean oil along with something like Moly additives will hopefully keep the lifters alive for a longer period of time.

I think some of the lifter issues have been overshadowed by engine failures at this point.

 

[jfoj]

I would not do this. The 5.3 has had 0-20 for a long time, even previous gen. No evidence of it throwing bearings (likely due to different shift points). 5.3 appears to be quite reliable (other than some lifter issues here and there, but even then, haven't heard a lot of lifter issues lately).

My same comment to anyone that chooses to what ever reason to stay with 0W20 is change it more frequently. You cannot control the fuel dilution, you cannot determine the fuel dilution easily. Check the oil every 2nd fill up, change the oil at 50% of the OLM.

If you tow with your 5.3l, then either change the oil before towing or a long trip. Change the oil after towing depending on the towing conditions.

Oil is cheaper than steel.

Simple enough.

 

[jfoj]

With all due respect @jfoj, if GM is going to inspect 6.2's, and if they pass, change the oil spec to Dexos 0W40, and extend the warranty on the engine to 10yrs, 150k miles; recommending someone not run the dexos approved oil is setting them up for a disaster if this remedy turns out for GM to be a bad one and a bunch of 6.2's grenade at 95-100-115-120k miles.

"Oh, we told you to use Dexos 0W40; you got your service records?" You respond, "Sure, here they are..." GM says, "Oh, You used AmsOil 0-40, not dexos approved...you didn't follow our instructions."

We know and appreciate your opinion on the oil situation; but I think the odds are there is more to the story. Regardless, we also know that it will be key to follow, at minimum, the engine oil requirements from GM as long as this engine is under warranty. Recommending going outside the Dexos cert is not something I think one should recommend.

My guess is the bulk of the bearing fails are actually due to the "out of tolerance machining" on the crankshaft that GM has admitted to. Think about it, engineer designed the rods and bearings assuming a given diameter of the crank, crank is off by 0.001 or .002 or .003. If it is too tight, can't get enough oil in there, if it is too loose, you are banging the bearings into the crank...either way...eventually a kaboom. The heavier oil would protect against too loose (crank over machined), probably doesn't help much on the too tight...maybe it does...but probably not. This too loose scenario would be exacerbated by the low RPM, High Load situation these motors are operating at in our trucks.

Based on the pre 7500 mile failures, too tight or debris seems to have taken a lot of the 6.2l's out early. If you are past 10k miles, I would say you should not have problems with tight but you may have bearings that are having a problem with keeping a proper oil film and higher viscosity oil would benefit this condition. The general bearing clearance spec if not out of range should support both 0W20 and 0W40 oils, but 0W20 has a much lower safety margin for fuel dilution.

Same comment I have made other places.

My same comment to anyone that chooses to what ever reason to stay with 0W20 is change it more frequently. You cannot control the fuel dilution, you cannot determine the fuel dilution easily. Check the oil every 2nd fill up, change the oil at 50% of the OLM.

If you tow with your 5.3l, then either change the oil before towing or a long trip. Change the oil after towing depending on the towing conditions.

Oil is cheaper than steel.

Simple enough.

 

[Antonm]

"Oh, we told you to use Dexos 0W40; you got your service records?" You respond, "Sure, here they are..." GM says, "Oh, You used AmsOil 0-40, not dexos approved...you didn't follow our instructions."

LOL, they are not legally allowed to do what you propose.

If they could, they would void warranties for having your oil changed at Jiffy Lube vice a dealership or having non- GM wiper blades . Which manufactures trying to void warranties for silly things like that is why the Magnuson- Moss warranty act became a thing (see link below the federal trade commissions website)

Magnuson Moss Warranty-Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act

Title I of this Act authorizes the Federal Trade Commission to develop regulations for written warranties.

www.ftc.gov

This was true even before this whole recall thing. So running a different oil does not, and can not, void a warranty unless it can be proven (not suggested, not implied, not told with no evidence, but proven) that the non-recommend oil was the sole root cause of an issue.
...

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

LOL, they are not legally allowed to do what you propose.

If they could, they would void warranties for having your oil changed at Jiffy Lube vice a dealership or having non- GM wiper blades . Which manufactures trying to void warranties for silly things like that is why the Magnuson- Moss warranty act became a thing (see link below the federal trade commissions website)

Magnuson Moss Warranty-Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act

Title I of this Act authorizes the Federal Trade Commission to develop regulations for written warranties.

www.ftc.gov

This was true even before this whole recall thing. So running a different oil does not, and can not, void a warranty unless it can be proven (not suggested, not implied, not told with no evidence, but proven) that the non-recommend oil was the sole root cause of an issue.
...

Pretty Sure the Magnuson-Moss warranty act says that if they can prove using oil of the wrong spec caused the damage, they can deny your claim (you can’t “void” a warranty). Unclear if the requirement said 0w-40 dexos R is the spec, and you used non dexos…what the impact is. Is Dexos a spec, or a license? They may have a tough time in this case…as they already admitted they have a defect…but I’m no attorney.

 

[mountie]

Pretty Sure the Magnuson-Moss warranty act says that if they can prove using oil of the wrong spec caused the damage, they can deny your claim (you can’t “void” a warranty). Unclear if the spec said 0w-40 dexos R is the spec, and you used non dexos…what the impact is. Is Dexos a spec, or a license? They may have a tough time in this case…as they already admitted they have a defect…but I’m no attorney.

As popular as Suburbans & Yukons are, I would think, GM warranty 'department' won't piss off future buyers.

 

[jfoj]

Dexos infow

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

As popular as Suburbans & Yukons are, I would think, GM warranty 'department' won't piss off future buyers.

Let's hope. They have kind of pissed off this 30 year buyer already...

 

[Scarey]

As popular as Suburbans & Yukons are, I would think, GM warranty 'department' won't piss off future buyers.

They already pissed off future buyers, fool me once……

 

[tagexpcom]

I have a 2021 Yukon Denali 6.2L w/61,000miles running fine. GMC has not sent me anything.

However, went to GMC VIN lookup and found this

What's the recommendation here? Go to the dealer? and they do what exactly? (says "Remedy Not Available")
Or...
Just not worry at this point since all is running great?

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

I have a 2021 Yukon Denali 6.2L w/61,000miles running fine. GMC has not sent me anything.

However, went to GMC VIN lookup and found this
View attachment 456504

What's the recommendation here? Go to the dealer? and they do what exactly? (says "Remedy Not Available")
Or...
Just not worry at this point since all is running great?

Read this entire thread first, then make your decision. (Net, if you are under the *000 recall right now, nobody can do anything for you yet, as remedy is not available.)

 

[corpnupe85]

I have a 2021 Yukon Denali 6.2L w/61,000miles running fine. GMC has not sent me anything.

However, went to GMC VIN lookup and found this
View attachment 456504

What's the recommendation here? Go to the dealer? and they do what exactly? (says "Remedy Not Available")
Or...
Just not worry at this point since all is running great?

I have a 2021 Tahoe High Country with 26,014 miles that I purchased on 1/18/2025 (traded in a 2018 Escalade. I did not know about the engine issues). I have the same notification as you. I went to the dealer and they told me that have not received any guidance from GM. I don't know what to do now?

 

[KMeloney]

I have a 2021 Yukon Denali 6.2L w/61,000miles running fine. GMC has not sent me anything.

However, went to GMC VIN lookup and found this
View attachment 456504

What's the recommendation here? Go to the dealer? and they do what exactly? (says "Remedy Not Available")
Or...
Just not worry at this point since all is running great?

As of last week, no dealer was prepared to do anything with regard to the recall. It appears that nothing will be done before June, per some info posted here.

 

[Antonm]

Pretty Sure the Magnuson-Moss warranty act says that if they can prove using oil of the wrong spec caused the damage, they can deny your claim (you can’t “void” a warranty). Unclear if the requirement said 0w-40 dexos R is the spec, and you used non dexos…what the impact is. Is Dexos a spec, or a license? They may have a tough time in this case…as they already admitted they have a defect…but I’m no attorney.

Right,, they have to PROVE it, you said earlier they could just say "well , you didn't use Dexos approved oil and follow our recommendation so your warranty is void", which they can not do by law. They have to prove the non-recommended oil was the sole root cause, which is impossible to do for an engine that has a freaking recall out for the issue.

The whole "it'll void your warranty" stuff comes from mis-informed sheepeople repeating stuff that just isn't true.
...

 

[Marky Dissod]

IFF an L87 built within the suspect timeframe
fails before it accrues too many miles,
or
fails before too much time has elapsed,
or
throws code P0016
GM owes you either a repaired or replaced L87.

If you don't how the Magnusson-Moss warranty act works, you're far more likely to defend GM,
and skrewer yself out of a repaired or replaced L87.
Y'all have an opportunity here - don't squander it.

 

[OR VietVet]

 

[jfoj]

For anyone it has a recalled vehicle it's probably going to be at least 30 plus days before the dealers are ready to deal with this issue.

My advice if you're not interested in putting 0W40 in the engine is at least change the oil by the 50% OLM with fresh 0W20.

 

[BADRIDES]

With all due respect @jfoj, if GM is going to inspect 6.2's, and if they pass, change the oil spec to Dexos 0W40, and extend the warranty on the engine to 10yrs, 150k miles; recommending someone not run the dexos approved oil is setting them up for a disaster if this remedy turns out for GM to be a bad one and a bunch of 6.2's grenade at 95-100-115-120k miles.

"Oh, we told you to use Dexos 0W40; you got your service records?" You respond, "Sure, here they are..." GM says, "Oh, You used AmsOil 0-40, not dexos approved...you didn't follow our instructions."

We know and appreciate your opinion on the oil situation; but I think the odds are there is more to the story. Regardless, we also know that it will be key to follow, at minimum, the engine oil requirements from GM as long as this engine is under warranty. Recommending going outside the Dexos cert is not something I think one should recommend.

My guess is the bulk of the bearing fails are actually due to the "out of tolerance machining" on the crankshaft that GM has admitted to. Think about it, engineer designed the rods and bearings assuming a given diameter of the crank, crank is off by 0.001 or .002 or .003. If it is too tight, can't get enough oil in there, if it is too loose, you are banging the bearings into the crank...either way...eventually a kaboom. The heavier oil would protect against too loose (crank over machined), probably doesn't help much on the too tight...maybe it does...but probably not. This too loose scenario would be exacerbated by the low RPM, High Load situation these motors are operating at in our trucks.

If GM brings your vehicle in and gives you a free 0-40 oil change then I would keep on letting the dealership do your oil change for record purposes especially right now. I would not switch over to a different brand 0-40 even if you do have records or another shop does it.

 

[jfoj]

Interesting read, if true GM is developing " diagnostic tools" to test for bearing damage.

Possibly something like the vacuum system another manufacturer developed and used.

Special Diagnostic Tools