What? An EV Tahoe?

[GlockandRoll]

It's called range anxiety.
It would be RADICALLY cheaper to charge a Tesla at home than $400/month.
A Tesla will roughly cost you about 1/9th as much to drive per mile as an ICE vehicle, yet have 2-3x the power/performance, if not more.
I have several friends with Teslas, model Ss, Ys, even an X, and the tell me it costs them about $3/100 miles driven. And they can smoke a Hellcat from a red-light.

Even the tri-motor 1500hp Cybertruck that I've got on order will go 0-60 in under 2.9 seconds.
That's C8 corvette fast, yet using a fraction of the energy.

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

It's called range anxiety.
It would be RADICALLY cheaper to charge a Tesla at home than $400/month.
A Tesla will roughly cost you about 1/9th as much to drive per mile as an ICE vehicle, yet have 2-3x the power/performance, if not more.
I have several friends with Teslas, model Ss, Ys, even an X, and the tell me it costs them about $3/100 miles driven. And they can smoke a Hellcat from a red-light.

Even the tri-motor 1500hp Cybertruck that I've got on order will go 0-60 in under 2.9 seconds.
That's C8 corvette fast, yet using a fraction of the energy.

Are you only counting fuel costs? Because, I think it has been shown that the TCO of a tesla vs a similarly sized ICE sedan yelds the Tesla costing more...
See Video I posted above about TCO.

 

[GlockandRoll]

When you consider tax rebates and fuel savings, there's no way my Cybertruck will cost more than my crew-cab ram diesel, assuming they are roughly the same price around $65K.

This is because I drive, on average, 30 miles per day and have for 10 years.
1 road trip over 500 miles per year, at least 1-2 trips to the airport, and a couple of business meetings in Dallas and it puts me right at 10K years. it's always been that way for me, at least for the last decade.

The Cybertruck will put 15 miles of range in my pack each day in just 4 hours of sunlight. We get a LOT more than 4 hours of sun in Texas, so 1/2 of my miles are free based on the assumption that I will drive 30 miles per day on avg.

Sunlight aside, it will cost me about $4/100 miles to drive vs nearly 6x that much.
With sunlight, we are talking $2/100 miles to drive, give or take a few cents.

Now, get rid of $200 oil changes, DEF, and $1K brake jobs as regen braking makes tesla brakes last exponentially longer, and there is absolutely NO way in hell the TCO of my Cybertruck will be higher than my current diesel truck.

If I keep the CT 10 years, which my wife and I have done, my ram will be 8 when I give it to my son when Tesla builds my truck, and my wife's sequoia lasted 10 years before we got her Yukon, it will practically pay for itself with tax incentives, but mostly fuel savings alone.

16mpg at $5/gal for 10K miles = $3,125/year in fuel alone.
Over 10 years, that is a $30K savings, that's half the price of the truck.

Your argument is incorrect, sorry.

 

[todayusay]

one factor I seldom see mentioned about EVs is that they'll go through a set of tires quite a bit faster than your regular ole ICE vehicle...sure I can save $40 every 7500 miles by not having to change the oil in my accord, but I'll have to rotate the tires and who knows how much that costs by itself these days $20? $30?....when was the last time you had your tires rotated and no other service performed?

there's all sorts of articles out there debating both sides of it - this one is definitely on the side of EVs but the down side of tire wear coupled with the "need" to buy higher quality tires due to the weight of the EV is pretty hard to ignore as "factor"

Electric Vehicle Maintenance Is Super-Cheap, But The Dark Secret Is Tires

Today I completed the annual maintenance on my 3.5 year old electric car, by adding wiper fluid and putting air in the tires. Last year, though, a mistake made me replace the tires, and the cost of them adds more than one would like.

www.forbes.com

Tires are one thing I despise about car ownership as we go through our vehicles fairly quickly since we average over 40k miles/yr on two separate vehicles

 

[DuraYuk]

When you consider tax rebates and fuel savings, there's no way my Cybertruck will cost more than my crew-cab ram diesel, assuming they are roughly the same price around $65K.

This is because I drive, on average, 30 miles per day and have for 10 years.
1 road trip over 500 miles per year, at least 1-2 trips to the airport, and a couple of business meetings in Dallas and it puts me right at 10K years. it's always been that way for me, at least for the last decade.

The Cybertruck will put 15 miles of range in my pack each day in just 4 hours of sunlight. We get a LOT more than 4 hours of sun in Texas, so 1/2 of my miles are free based on the assumption that I will drive 30 miles per day on avg.

Sunlight aside, it will cost me about $4/100 miles to drive vs nearly 6x that much.
With sunlight, we are talking $2/100 miles to drive, give or take a few cents.

Now, get rid of $200 oil changes, DEF, and $1K brake jobs as regen braking makes tesla brakes last exponentially longer, and there is absolutely NO way in hell the TCO of my Cybertruck will be higher than my current diesel truck.

If I keep the CT 10 years, which my wife and I have done, my ram will be 8 when I give it to my son when Tesla builds my truck, and my wife's sequoia lasted 10 years before we got her Yukon, it will practically pay for itself with tax incentives, but mostly fuel savings alone.

16mpg at $5/gal for 10K miles = $3,125/year in fuel alone.
Over 10 years, that is a $30K savings, that's half the price of the truck.

Your argument is incorrect, sorry.

You make some valid points. If you tow a lot ev isn't really the way. Especially over any larger distance. The range drops drastically when towing. Up to 60 to 70% in most cases. Now if all you do is short 50 mile trips then it works out.

I have owned Teslas and my wife currently has a mach e gt and even highway speeds cuts nominal range by 40% and in some cases more.

So plan accordingly.

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

And…you haven’t discussed battery maintenance. I don’t think we know yet on that…too early to tell.

But, at a minimum, discuss it. If it’s a 10 year battery life, you have to count 1/10 of the battery replacement cost per year of ownership. Or it hits you in vehicle value at the end. I rarely see this discussed, but if the battery has depleted to the point where range suffers, it will need a replacement, or the vehicle will have no value. This is real on used Hybrids, it has to also apply for real EV’s.

 

[todayusay]

When you consider tax rebates and fuel savings, there's no way my Cybertruck will cost more than my crew-cab ram diesel, assuming they are roughly the same price around $65K.

This is because I drive, on average, 30 miles per day and have for 10 years.
1 road trip over 500 miles per year, at least 1-2 trips to the airport, and a couple of business meetings in Dallas and it puts me right at 10K years. it's always been that way for me, at least for the last decade.

The Cybertruck will put 15 miles of range in my pack each day in just 4 hours of sunlight. We get a LOT more than 4 hours of sun in Texas, so 1/2 of my miles are free based on the assumption that I will drive 30 miles per day on avg.

Sunlight aside, it will cost me about $4/100 miles to drive vs nearly 6x that much.
With sunlight, we are talking $2/100 miles to drive, give or take a few cents.

Now, get rid of $200 oil changes, DEF, and $1K brake jobs as regen braking makes tesla brakes last exponentially longer, and there is absolutely NO way in hell the TCO of my Cybertruck will be higher than my current diesel truck.

If I keep the CT 10 years, which my wife and I have done, my ram will be 8 when I give it to my son when Tesla builds my truck, and my wife's sequoia lasted 10 years before we got her Yukon, it will practically pay for itself with tax incentives, but mostly fuel savings alone.

16mpg at $5/gal for 10K miles = $3,125/year in fuel alone.
Over 10 years, that is a $30K savings, that's half the price of the truck.

Your argument is incorrect, sorry.

the component left out of the above....that is left out of most "ownership" discussions is the residual value of the "truck" after whatever time period is specified...would also expect the lifespan of the typical EV battery along with the possible replacement cost to be included as well? or is that just ignored in these types of discussions?

i see this all the time on the gas vs diesel discussions...diesel option cost $10k more than the gas counterpart and it'll take 150k miles (or whatever) for the savings to offset the initial cost...yet that only means you did exactly that...offset the initial cost. when the time comes to sell the gas/diesel truck, the diesel retains probably 90% of that initial cost over the gas truck

 

[todayusay]

And…you haven’t discussed battery maintenance. I don’t think we know yet on that…too early to tell.

But, at a minimum, discuss it. If it’s a 10 year battery life, you have to count 1/10 of the battery replacement cost per year of ownership. Or it hits you in vehicle value at the end. I rarely see this discussed, but if the battery has depleted to the point where range suffers, it will need a replacement, or the vehicle will have no value. This is real on used Hybrids, it has to also apply for real EV’s.

ditto - beat me to it

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

ditto - beat me to it

Here is a Car and Driver article on the topic...but even it sort of "discounts" it as a "well, it will happen, but it probably will be cheaper than it is today"

Electric Car Battery Life: Everything You Need to Know

The battery packs of electric vehicles are quite resilient, with the lithium-ion type used in most modern EVs capable of lasting at least a decade before needing replacement.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[GlockandRoll]

one factor I seldom see mentioned about EVs is that they'll go through a set of tires quite a bit faster than your regular ole ICE vehicle...sure I can save $40 every 7500 miles by not having to change the oil in my accord, but I'll have to rotate the tires and who knows how much that costs by itself these days $20? $30?....when was the last time you had your tires rotated and no other service performed?

there's all sorts of articles out there debating both sides of it - this one is definitely on the side of EVs but the down side of tire wear coupled with the "need" to buy higher quality tires due to the weight of the EV is pretty hard to ignore as "factor"

Electric Vehicle Maintenance Is Super-Cheap, But The Dark Secret Is Tires

Today I completed the annual maintenance on my 3.5 year old electric car, by adding wiper fluid and putting air in the tires. Last year, though, a mistake made me replace the tires, and the cost of them adds more than one would like.

www.forbes.com

Tires are one thing I despise about car ownership as we go through our vehicles fairly quickly since we average over 40k miles/yr on two separate vehicles

A model 3 weighs 3600 lbs, the CT will weigh 7k.

buy, I don't put shit tires on anything as it's the most important part of the car from a performance and safety perspective.

 

[GlockandRoll]

the component left out of the above....that is left out of most "ownership" discussions is the residual value of the "truck" after whatever time period is specified...would also expect the lifespan of the typical EV battery along with the possible replacement cost to be included as well? or is that just ignored in these types of discussions?

i see this all the time on the gas vs diesel discussions...diesel option cost $10k more than the gas counterpart and it'll take 150k miles (or whatever) for the savings to offset the initial cost...yet that only means you did exactly that...offset the initial cost. when the time comes to sell the gas/diesel truck, the diesel retains probably 90% of that initial cost over the gas truck

have you looked at late model Tesla resale values lately?

The new battery packs are good for 1/2 million miles.

There are videos of people with 200k miles on thier Teslas with more than 90% battery life remaining.

 

[GlockandRoll]

You make some valid points. If you tow a lot ev isn't really the way. Especially over any larger distance. The range drops drastically when towing. Up to 60 to 70% in most cases. Now if all you do is short 50 mile trips then it works out.

I have owned Teslas and my wife currently has a mach e gt and even highway speeds cuts nominal range by 40% and in some cases more.

So plan accordingly.

and that's just it. buy what works for you. the Cybertruck will be the perfect vehicle for me. I can't wait.

 

[Doubeleive]

as far as being able to shut down some cars remotely with onstar or whatever ya that's possible, but all the new stuff will all be on the same system and can all be controlled at the same time this is what I meant. They will be to reject all traffic in a certain area, bring a entire freeway to a halt, etc.
They are already requiring some of this tech to be in all new cars in the UK, speed limiters for instance currently are "voluntary" for the end user, but that will change once it is system wide and maybe that is not a entirely bad thing I just don't like the idea of "control" over the masses but it's coming like it or not.
entities like CARB just do whatever they want, we don't get to vote on it, they just say say "it's for the greater good" and that's it, end of discussion.

 

[GlockandRoll]

I'm with you there. But it's naive to think that they can shut down EVs harder than they can new ICE cars. They are all cloud-connected.

I actually work in IT in the big-data/cloud analytics space and have at least 1 major auto manufacturer as a customer and what they tell me is that the car isn't the commodity - we are.

A computer can be hacked/reprogrammed.

But, if you are that worried about it - why stop there; why not worry about EMP also?
GM already made something for you decades ago, actually.

 

[steiny93]

If GM wants to actually win in the ev market they shouldn't do a full sized 100% battery then should do either or 1 of these instead of a 100% EV full sized.

1) Full sized PHEV, give it 50 mile all electric range and lock in on a single engine, single configuration, I'd vote baby dmax in the xl. Get the price to be ~$9k extra for the PHEV.
- this solves for people who want 100% electric in town with long range ability for an extended trip, large size is important
2) Mid sized all electric suv, get it to 400 mile range, target the around town grocery and kid transport market.
- this solves for people who was to run around town, downsizing the vehicle is a plus in urban environments

Sell both options without requiring all the self driving 'stuff' to control price. Get the base versions with very nice interiors but with an option to save on all the self driving stuff for people that don't care. They would appeal to the folks that either want to dabble in the EV space or want the improved cost savings over the life of the vehicle.

I personally would have dropped extra cash for a PHEV with the diesel, the BMW X5 PHEV was the leading competitor to the denali we bought. Size of the denali being the only reason we bought it.


The EV's being controlled better / worse then IC vehicles is silly, those controls are universal to both platforms.

 

[Doubeleive]

I'm with you there. But it's naive to think that they can shut down EVs harder than they can new ICE cars. They are all cloud-connected.

I actually work in IT in the big-data/cloud analytics space and have at least 1 major auto manufacturer as a customer and what they tell me is that the car isn't the commodity - we are.

A computer can be hacked/reprogrammed.

But, if you are that worried about it - why stop there; why not worry about EMP also?
GM already made something for you decades ago, actually.

View attachment 384228

again not being alarmist, it's just my synopsis of what is to come be it 20-30 years down the road or more, it won't be the manufacture shutting them down it will be police, emergency personnel, fema, who knows...... after they have required the "universal" tech be installed at the factory, the signal will likely be portable, cellular and if need be satellite or both. Full control can be everyone everywhere or within certain blocks, etc.
being in IT has nothing to do with it but as you know a simple ip number change can shut a entire business down in a split second
yes maybe it can be hacked just depends on how good the tech gets but if it's anything like it's going now there will be redundancies in place making it extremely difficult.
the technology is available all they have to do is push the laws thru which they tend do underhanded already

**like a possible synopsis a farm animal has somehow managed to make it on the interstate highway, police can simply engage a traffic control slowing all 5 mile approaching traffic to 15mph, or even a full stop if needed, the farm animal is removed from the highway, the police officer releases the traffic slow down and everything resumes back to 65mph

 

[GlockandRoll]

This post gave me cancer, then gave my cancer aids... I hope you are happy.
*** UNSUBSCRIBED ***

 

[garymyman]

again not being alarmist

[proceeds to be extremely alarmist]

 

[Doubeleive]

[proceeds to be extremely alarmist]

lol, I don't think the general public pays attention much, the sucky part is CARB is allowed to do whatever they want and nobody cares to question it, they are the supreme commander and the public just bends over and takes it with no vaseline. The other 49 states just fall in line like good little lemmings

 

[Sparksalot]

lol, I don't think the general public pays attention much, the sucky part is CARB is allowed to do whatever they want and nobody cares to question it, they are the supreme commander and the public just bends over and takes it with no vaseline. The other 49 states just fall in line like good little lemmings

The moratorium wouldn’t have to take very long if ALL manufacturers just said no for a period of time.