Slow cranking due to battery cable?

[DaveO9]

I have a couple of reactions to this that I hope are helpful. There is of course nothing wrong with delaying replacement or replacing the factory big 3 wiring with new factory parts if you're not in need of better performance because the problems people are seeing are mainly the product of age and exposure - especially wet weather and road salt. But to Wes's point, the factory parts are minimal because they don't maintain the performance level that the sensitive electronic systems on these cars require for the life of the vehicle, in many cases. So the argument for upgrading to bigger/more weather-resistant components is to ensure that you're unlikely to experience the problem again. For those who keep their cars a loooong time, as I do, that's beneficial.

As for the starter, my rationale for replacing it before it fails with a new OEM part is based on not wanting to be stranded somewhere far away from home (we take trips often). And thanks to this forum, I've learned that on the GMT900 platform at least, the average life of a starter is somewhere between 120K and 160K, depending on driving habits of course. So I have a new starter on the shelf that I plan to install in our 2012 XL Denali with 132K on it in the next couple of months. I've already replaced the one in our '07 XL Denali this fall.

I have a spreadsheet in which I track all maintenance and parts replacement. In it I also have dates and mileages for when I should plan to replace common failure items proactively, based on what I've learned here. I learned this habit from owning an aircraft. While it's legal for private aircraft owners to replace parts 'on condition', commercial aircraft must have certain parts replaced after a specified time in service (hours or calendar months). What those limits are is evidence-based from past service experience. This is also true for ALL helicopters, regardless of whether it's privately or commercially owned. They do this to ensure absolute reliability and to limit the risk of failure.

It's slightly more expensive to maintain my vehicles this way, but far less expensive than a new vehicle, and cheaper than hotels, tow trucks, and a ruined vacation. And my wife and kids are usually in it with me, so I feel I owe it to them to do the best I can afford to keep them safe. So far, knock-on-wood, I have only had one vehicle strand me in 34 years of vehicle ownership. It was a Land Rover that developed a bad fuel gauge that unbeknownst to me read 1/4 tank when it was actually empty. I sold it shortly thereafter.

I hear you! I'm an engineer for a large electrical utility so I'm no stranger to asset management principles/reliability centered maintenance. (Also understand the importance of good grounding practices - they keep our people alive, among other things) I also have no problem replacing parts before failure if it's likely failure is close due to mileage, warning signs, known problems etc. But I've only owned this rig for two months and I'm unsure what all has already been replaced. Someone's been in the engine since AFM stuff is gone and I was looking underneath last night - it's super clean under there for a rig with 193K. No leaks at all except a few drops from the oil drain plug. New $0.50 washer will solve that one next oil change. So I'd just hate to pay $160 for a new starter if old one is fine.

I'm going to replace negative cable first since that's visibly damaged. When I do that, I'll do some testing on positive cable and will replace that one next if testing dictates. Then if I still have slow cranking, I'll probably do starter. I don't like getting stranded either! I also have a pile of old battery cables from past rigs (I parted out two different suburbans) so I think I will at least add a ground from alt bracket to frame and will see about making some improvements on the positive side as well.

Thanks for the help and advice, everyone. I'll reply to the thread with updates after I do initial replacements and testing.

 

[Geotrash]

I hear you! I'm an engineer for a large electrical utility so I'm no stranger to asset management principles/reliability centered maintenance. (Also understand the importance of good grounding practices - they keep our people alive, among other things) I also have no problem replacing parts before failure if it's likely failure is close due to mileage, warning signs, known problems etc. But I've only owned this rig for two months and I'm unsure what all has already been replaced. Someone's been in the engine since AFM stuff is gone and I was looking underneath last night - it's super clean under there for a rig with 193K. No leaks at all except a few drops from the oil drain plug. New $0.50 washer will solve that one next oil change. So I'd just hate to pay $160 for a new starter if old one is fine.

I'm going to replace negative cable first since that's visibly damaged. When I do that, I'll do some testing on positive cable and will replace that one next if testing dictates. Then if I still have slow cranking, I'll probably do starter. I don't like getting stranded either! I also have a pile of old battery cables from past rigs (I parted out two different suburbans) so I think I will at least add a ground from alt bracket to frame and will see about making some improvements on the positive side as well.

Thanks for the help and advice, everyone. I'll reply to the thread with updates after I do initial replacements and testing.

Yes, the hardest thing with a 2nd hand rig is figuring out what’s been done and what hasn’t. You have a good handle on it. Hope you stick around!

 

[DaveO9]

Yes, the hardest thing with a 2nd hand rig is figuring out what’s been done and what hasn’t. You have a good handle on it. Hope you stick around!

Thanks! I do plan to stick around. I too, keep my vehicles a long time, (Suburban was 8 years, my 76 Vette is 21 and counting!) I will not put a lot of miles on this Tahoe, probably 5k a year, so it should be sticking around for a while. I plan to just slowly build it up the way I want. Fortunately, two months in, I'm still fairly confident that I picked a good base to start with. (And I think I picked a good forum so far, too. )

 

[intheburbs]

Got it, thanks. I had no idea the "Big 3" mod was such a BIG deal for these trucks. I thought it was just a colloquial term amongst a small group here and an actual search wouldn't turn anything up. Guess I should have tried first! All over this site and every other forum dealing with these rigs.

The Big 3 is likely one of the single most important "must do's" on these rigs. If you plan on keeping the rig and want "peace of mind", do the damn thing. Again, since I am a "thousandaire", I did the upgrade and a new Interstate AGM battery and a new alternator and new starter and all grounds and and and....and now, never a problem. Was a little bit overkill but I wanted to deal with it just once.

Frankly, this is the first I've ever heard of "the big 3." One of the single most important "must dos" on these rigs? Well, I haven't done it on either of mine, I live in the salt belt, and both of these trucks are over 10 years old.

I like to think of myself as a reasonably-savvy person, and in the last 17 years of hanging out on online fora, I've never heard of it. Sure, if you have an electrical issue, replace a cable. But preventive maintenance? I think one's money could be better-spent elsewhere.

 

[OR VietVet]

Frankly, this is the first I've ever heard of "the big 3." One of the single most important "must dos" on these rigs? Well, I haven't done it on either of mine, I live in the salt belt, and both of these trucks are over 10 years old.

I like to think of myself as a reasonably-savvy person, and in the last 17 years of hanging out on online fora, I've never heard of it. Sure, if you have an electrical issue, replace a cable. But preventive maintenance? I think one's money could be better-spent elsewhere.

Each and every member here is always entitled to their opinion. Many threads have shown electrical problems that were corrected and then not worried about in the future by the Big 3 upgrade. Especially in a salt state, these electrical problems happen more often than one might think but not all of them are posted here. It's great you have had no problems and other members will read your response and then decide to roll the dice. Now days, money spent elsewhere includes, food, heat and fuel. We all have our priorities.

Come to think of it, it is "Just a better mouse trap".

 

[houstontaylor]

Within the last year I got a new battery from an auto parts store that was 700 cold cranking amps and it cranked slowly even though it was new and on the recommended list for my car from the store computer. Then I found out online that it should have had at least 745 cold cranking amps minimum. I ended up giving that battery to a friend and getting one from Batteries Plus that I think was about 900 cold cranking amps and it does great. Something to check anyway.

 

[Rocket Man]

I hear you! I'm an engineer for a large electrical utility so I'm no stranger to asset management principles/reliability centered maintenance. (Also understand the importance of good grounding practices - they keep our people alive, among other things) I also have no problem replacing parts before failure if it's likely failure is close due to mileage, warning signs, known problems etc. But I've only owned this rig for two months and I'm unsure what all has already been replaced. Someone's been in the engine since AFM stuff is gone and I was looking underneath last night - it's super clean under there for a rig with 193K. No leaks at all except a few drops from the oil drain plug. New $0.50 washer will solve that one next oil change. So I'd just hate to pay $160 for a new starter if old one is fine.

I'm going to replace negative cable first since that's visibly damaged. When I do that, I'll do some testing on positive cable and will replace that one next if testing dictates. Then if I still have slow cranking, I'll probably do starter. I don't like getting stranded either! I also have a pile of old battery cables from past rigs (I parted out two different suburbans) so I think I will at least add a ground from alt bracket to frame and will see about making some improvements on the positive side as well.

Thanks for the help and advice, everyone. I'll reply to the thread with updates after I do initial replacements and testing.

This ^^^

 

[DaveO9]

Within the last year I got a new battery from an auto parts store that was 700 cold cranking amps and it cranked slowly even though it was new and on the recommended list for my car from the store computer. Then I found out online that it should have had at least 745 cold cranking amps minimum. I ended up giving that battery to a friend and getting one from Batteries Plus that I think was about 900 cold cranking amps and it does great. Something to check anyway.

Yeah, battery capacity could have something to do with it. Mine lists 730 CCA. Do you have a link to the CCA requirements page you found? I wasn't finding much with some searches. But I think in my case it was the negative cable. Replacement seems to have solved my issue. I put together a before and after video of it starting cold, 24 hours or more sitting both times. Second time ambient temp was considerably colder than first time and it still cranks noticeably faster.

 

[Fless]

Noticeable difference in cranking speed!

 

[OR VietVet]

Starters love great flow thru cables. By the way @Dave09, congrats on the repair and the new peace of mind.