Planetary bearing noise?

Discussion in 'Engine & Drivetrain' started by afpj, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. afpj

    afpj Full Access Member

    Posts:
    562
    Likes Received:
    61
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Name:
    bob
    Hi all,

    COuld use advice, again. 2002 yuk 4x4 with 191k miles. last month had major work done as I plan on keeping this rig for awhile. Front diff rebuilt, including ring and pinion (mainly was for carrier bearing but ring and pinion had wear suggesting preload, backlash etc was way off.) ALso had oil pickup tube oring replaced, front engine and crankshaft seal (leaking oil), oil pump replaced. transfer case fluid changed. Shortly after getting her back, got squeal sound, that has a rotational frequency of a drive shaft (fast) as soon as it starts moving, not as loud when above 40mph. also quieter after been run for about 15 minutes. Brought back to shop that did the other stuff, and they confirmed nothing from what they did. THey pinpointed the planetary bearing in tranny. Tranny is factory rebuilt has 50k miles on it. Tranny fluid changed about 20k miles ago (no filter change). THe rear transfer case seal is leaking now too. I'm pretty sure seals don't squeal, just leak, but man planetary gear crap requires taking everything apart in tranny. Does the noise I described fit the diagnosis? I'm into this whole thing about $4500 now, so really not looking forward to tranny work too. Any advice is appreciated,,, the squeal does sound like a bearing but I was thinking driveshaft.
     
  2. Erickk120

    Erickk120 Full Access Member

    Posts:
    248
    Likes Received:
    110
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Name:
    Eric
    This is a general list from LS1Tech on 4l60E's

    Common failures on 4L60E, symptom < cause > any possible repair:
    1. Slow, slipping or no reverse: “lo-reverse” clutches are worn out, fluid leak in the reverse apply circuit, or broken sunshell. It is possible to remedy a fluid problem by removing the checkball from its cage in the case in the rear of the trans may help (must remove valvebody), or adding a high-viscosity additive such as Lucas Transmission additive or other seal restorer product. May also have worn boost valve (can replace in the pan).

    2. 1-2 shift does not happen at WOT until you let off the gas: Best case: try replacing the TPS. Middle case: leak in the 2nd gear apply circuit (servo assembly or 1-2 accumulator). Doublecheck by using the pressure gauge and watch for a big drop when the PCM commands 2nd gear. Worst case: poor line pressure rise (see below).

    3. 1-2 Shift shudder at WOT; delayed or abnormal 1-2 shift; There's a problem ONLY on the 1-2 shift: 1-2 accumulator piston cracked or stuck cocked in the bore. Check the yellow spring inside the accum housing for breakage. Also, if the accumulator housing walls are scored, the housing must be replaced. Easy fix in the pan.

    4. 1-2 shift is delayed and harsh, may not shift into OD: Check TPS for smooth and linear electrical response over the entire range of motion. If not, replace.

    5. Trans does not upshift out of first, speedometer reads zero at all times: VSS failure. Easy fix on rear of transmission, but xmember must come out to access VSS.

    6. No 3rd or 4th gear: “3-4” clutches are worn out. R&R. The car is safe to drive (in 2) until you can get it fixed.

    7. Sudden grinding noise with no prior warning primarily in 2nd gear, behavior in reverse may be abnormal; sunshell is fractured. R&R. Try not to run or drive the car or further damage could result.

    8. 1st and 3rd only, no 2,4 or R; sunshell is fractured or splines are sheared off. R&R. Try not to run or drive the car or further damage could result.

    9. No 2nd or 4th gear. 2-4 band is slipping. Servo seals may be damaged (can be fixed without removing trans. Otherwise, 2-4 band is worn out. R&R.

    10. Trans shifts into gear harshly, car feels sluggish off the line, No 1st, 4th or TCC lockup available, Manual 2nd, 3rd and Reverse are only available gears, CEL is on: Transmision is either in limp-home mode or has lost electrical power. If there are lots of error codes in the PCM, check the underhood fuse that powers the transmission, and if it pops again, look for a short in that circuit like an O2 sensor harness touching exhaust. Otherwise, check PCM codes for a particular fault in the transmission causing the PCM to put it in limp-home mode.

    11. No 1st or 4th available; trans shifts 2nd to 3rd by itself in D or OD and locks the converter : ShiftA solenoid failed. Easy fix in the pan. Or a wiring problem from PCM to trans.. or PCM.

    12. Car goes into gear but feels very sluggish like the brakes are dragging, but it will roll easily (starts out in 4th gear), you manually shift to 2 to get it moving, once it's moving you put it back in OD and the car shifts 3rd to 4th on its own and locks the converter at the appropriate time: ShiftB solenoid failed: Easy fix in the pan. Or a wiring problem from PCM to trans.. or PCM.

    13. No TCC lockup: Brake pedal switches improperly adjusted (always on), TCC solenoid failed (easy fix in the pan), TCC clutch worn out (must remove trans and replace TC).

    14. TCC always locked: TCC apply solenoid circuit shorted to ground, TCC solenoid blockage (easy fix in pan), or TC broken (must remove trans and replace TC).

    15. Horrible noise in 4th and feels like the brakes are on: overrun clutches are applying due to a cracked or leaking forward piston. Overrun clutches will be worn out after 30 seconds of this behavior. Car can be safely driven in D. R&R.

    16. Soft shifting, gradual performance degradation: Poor line pressure rise due to leaking boost valve, clogged EPC filter screen, failing EPC solenoid, or worst case: leaky seals throughout. Transgo HD2-C kit fixes first two without removing trans. Seal restorer may fix last problem, but probably R&R. Also try a transmission flush with BG brand products (Firestone stocks it).

    17. No forward movement in OD or D, but L2, L1 and R work: Forward sprag is broken. R&R. Try not to run or drive the car or further damage could result.

    18. Extremely harsh shifts from P or N, normal shifts at WOT: EPC (Electronic Pressure Control) solenoid failed. Easy fix in pan. Fix as soon as possible or hard parts will eventually break.

    19. Loud bang, grinding sound, loss of all gears, and a binding driveshaft: snapped output shaft. Try to wiggle driveshaft - if more than 0.020" play, that's the sign. R&R.

    20. Trans seems noisy when moving in 1st and Reverse, noise goes away instantly if you shift to N or the trans goes into 3rd gear: Reaction planetary is worn out due to high miles or insufficient lubrication. Not a critical failure, but not a good sign either. R&R sooner rather than later.

    21. No movement in any gear: pump failure, or total loss of fluid. R&R, or refill pan and find the leak. If out of fluid, avoid running the engine until the trans is refilled to avoid pump damage. To check for pump failure, check fluid level with the engine off, then start the engine and recheck fluid level. If level does not go down when engine is running, the pump is broken.
    22. Transmission does not shift automatically, only manually. Swap in a known-good PCM, check wiring, check other sensors such as VSS and TPS.
    23. 3rd gear starts, can manually shift through all gears. When car has been turned off for a bit, then back on it will run normally.: VSS dropoff w/ Hi-stall converter. The rpms are too high, but VSS is showing no movement. Happens after a tire burning take-off. Doesn't store a code, will not throw a CEL (I've heard that it will store a code if it happens 3 or more times). Cure: Reprogram PCM for VSS dropoff -- PCMforLess knows about it.
    24. Fluid leak out of the front of trans where the converter connects; partial or full loss of movement: Front pump bushing walked out. R&R. May have to replace converter also if hub is scored. Note that a leaking front seal usually means the bushing is walking out (i.e. call your local trans shop and schedule an appt.).
    25. Torque converter shudder in 4th while lockup is engaged; problem goes away when the brake pedal is pressed slightly to unlock converter. Have a shop verify line pressure, and provided no valves in the TCC hydraulic circuit are worn, replace the torque converter. Also, Lubegard Shudder Fix will at least fix this for awhile. Or try a transmission flush by a shop that uses BG brand products.
    26. Shift suddenly become very hard. When going from park to either reverse or drive it slams into gear. 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are also harsh. All gears seems to work. Problem may be intermittent: Check TPS for smooth electrical response. If the response is jumpy or erratic at all, replace TPS.
    27. All fluid pumped out through the vent tube: Plugged cooler line. Flush the transmission cooler and cooler lines. Also could be overfiled transmission.
    28. Car acts like it's in OD in neutral, car is locked stationary in R, engine feels loaded in P, all four forward positions work fine: R&R: Internal crossleak feeding the forward clutches all the time. Most likely a cracked input housing, or cracked forward piston means forward clutches are fused together. Car can safely be driven gently in forward gears until the repair.
    29. Needle bearings in the pan, first gear and/or reverse may be noisy: Either a torrington bearing or a planetary bearing is on its way out. Trans will eventually die a loud, catastrophic death. Cheaper to rebuild now (saves further damage to hard parts), but requires R&R. It is drivable until it breaks.

    30. 1-2 or 2-3 shift is slow/soft above part throttle: Trans is on its way out. R&R.


    From what I've read the torrington bearings are good for 200k miles, after that you better replace them on your next rebuild. Same goes for any of the planetary gear sets after 200k. That can only be checked by taking the thing apart, which is not fun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
    afpj likes this.
  3. mikeyss

    mikeyss Full Access Member

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    425
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Location:
    Longmont, Colorado.
    Name:
    Mike
    Has any work been done to the U-Joints?
     
  4. afpj

    afpj Full Access Member

    Posts:
    562
    Likes Received:
    61
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Name:
    bob
    Wow eric thanks for that detailed list. Since the squealing noise is still there when coasting in neutral, probably not item 20. 29 seems to fit the bill since it only does it low speeds, it shifts nice and smooth so I don't notice when it shifts but noise is much better at higher speeds. Cannot tell if tire/wind noise overtaking or really quieter at higher speed. To clarify, Mechanic said planetary bearing was toast. No noise in reverse.

    Mike, Ujoints appear good to both myself and the mechanic. NO play, no grease leaking.

    THanks
     
  5. afpj

    afpj Full Access Member

    Posts:
    562
    Likes Received:
    61
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Name:
    bob
    well, after a rebuilt transmission with several upgrades the noise was gone for about 250 miles, now back again. it does it in reverse as well. put the transmission and transfer case into neutral, and coasted down a hill and still does it. Does the front driveshaft still turn with transfer case in neutral and front tires rotating? i’d hate to take it to a dealer but seems my independent mechanic has failed. anyone know of any good mechanics in the las vegas area? any ideas would be helpful. i don’t have the ability to put all 4 corners on stands and let the drivetrain run safely to pinpoint it myself.
     
  6. afpj

    afpj Full Access Member

    Posts:
    562
    Likes Received:
    61
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Name:
    bob
    Just in case someone else runs into this...the high pitch, rapid “squeak squeak squeak” ...faster than tire rotation frequency...was actually the slip yoke. NO or very little grease. Bastards..
     

Share This Page