Expedition vs Yukon

DuraYuk

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Tow ratings have certainly improved, but those tow ratings are largely due to powertrain improvements.
And brakes, and chassis, and rigidity, and safety.

Similar to how today's 1/2 ton pickups can tow as much as yesterday's 3/4 tons.

Technology improves. Crazy i know.
 

Polo08816

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And brakes, and chassis, and rigidity, and safety.

Similar to how today's 1/2 ton pickups can tow as much as yesterday's 3/4 tons.

Technology improves. Crazy i know.
Either way, I'm not sure today's 1/2 ton pickups can carry 4 people, have 500 lbs of gear in the bed, and still tow a 8000 lbs enclosed trailer. I'm inclined to think you'll be exceeding the capacity (specifically, rear axle weight rating) of a modern 1/2 ton pickup (as well as 1/2 ton based full size SUV).
 

DuraYuk

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Either way, I'm not sure today's 1/2 ton pickups can carry 4 people, have 500 lbs of gear in the bed, and still tow a 8000 lbs enclosed trailer. I'm inclined to think you'll be exceeding the capacity (specifically, rear axle weight rating) of a modern 1/2 ton pickup (as well as 1/2 ton based full size SUV).
Actually they can with room and capacity to spare. https://automotivetowingguide.com/2023-chevrolet-silverado-1500-towing-capacity/

It's easy to look this stuff up. No need to ponder.
 

Polo08816

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Actually they can with room and capacity to spare. https://automotivetowingguide.com/2023-chevrolet-silverado-1500-towing-capacity/

It's easy to look this stuff up. No need to ponder.

It's actually not. That link didn't specify the rear axle weight rating for any vehicle. In fact, the rear axle weight rating for a particular vehicle would only be located on the data stamp on the door frame. It's also specific for each build as options tend to increase curb weight and reduce payloda.

Here's an illustration of the problem for 1/2 ton based vehicles:

Payload capacity ~ 1500 lbs
6 passengers at 175lbs each ~ 1000lbs
Luggage for each passenger - 6 passengers * 50 lbs ~ 300lbs

You have about 200lbs of payload capacity remaining so you really can't tow much at that point.

This isn't a problem with a 1 ton SRW gas HD pickup because you'll tend to have payload capacities in the 3250 to 4000lbs range.
 

DuraYuk

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It's actually not. That link didn't specify the rear axle weight rating for any vehicle. In fact, the rear axle weight rating for a particular vehicle would only be located on the data stamp on the door frame. It's also specific for each build as options tend to increase curb weight and reduce payloda.

Here's an illustration of the problem for 1/2 ton based vehicles:

Payload capacity ~ 1500 lbs
6 passengers at 175lbs each ~ 1000lbs
Luggage for each passenger - 6 passengers * 50 lbs ~ 300lbs

You have about 200lbs of payload capacity remaining so you really can't tow much at that point.

This isn't a problem with a 1 ton SRW gas HD pickup because you'll tend to have payload capacities in the 3250 to 4000lbs range.
You said 1/2 ton pickups. My reply was to that. The 2023 1/2 tons have way more then 1500 payload as my link outlined. And can tow up to 13000 pounds.

This data is all over the internet. All you have to do is search. It's easy.

4 people with 500 pounds of gear with 8000 pound trailer:
2023 6.2 Silverado payload 2300lbs max tow 13100 pounds:
175x4= 700 occupant weight
700+500= 1200 occupant weight with gear
2300-1200= 1100 payload capacity remaining
Unless your 8000 pound trailer has a 1000 pound tongue weight you are fine.
 
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Polo08816

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It's actually not. That link didn't specify the rear axle weight rating for any vehicle. In fact, the rear axle weight rating for a particular vehicle would only be located on the data stamp on the door frame. It's also specific for each build as options tend to increase curb weight and reduce payloda.

Here's an illustration of the problem for 1/2 ton based vehicles:

Payload capacity ~ 1500 lbs
6 passengers at 175lbs each ~ 1000lbs
Luggage for each passenger - 6 passengers * 50 lbs ~ 300lbs

You have about 200lbs of payload capacity remaining so you really can't tow much at that point.

This isn't a problem with a 1 ton SRW gas HD pickup because you'll tend to have payload capacities in the 3250 to 4000lbs range.

You said 1/2 ton pickups. My reply was to that. The 2023 1/2 tons have way more then 1500 payload as my link outlined. And can tow up to 13000 pounds.

This data is all over the internet. All you have to do is search. It's easy.

4 people with 500 pounds of gear with 8000 pound trailer:
2023 6.2 Silverado payload 2300lbs max tow 13100 pounds:
175x4= 700 occupant weight
700+500= 1200 occupant weight with gear
2300-1200= 1100 payload capacity remaining
Unless your 8000 pound trailer has a 1000 pound tongue weight you are fine.

Your link specifies the maximum payload for what usually is a 4x2 base trim regular cab short bed 1/2 ton pickup. If you end up with a 4x4 crew cab in an upper trim, your payload will be way below the maximum payload. Like I've said earlier, I've seen the data plates stamped on the door frame for these vehicles. GM usually does a bit better at 1450-1700lbs. Ram is the lowest usually at 900-1200 lbs for a Limited trim and Ford is around 1350-1500 for a Platinum trim. You're going to want around 15% on the tongue so that's around 1,200 lbs. You're going to use up most of your payload on the tongue weight of a 8,000lbs trailer.

In fact, a flat bed car trailer is one of the easiest types of trailers to optimize because there's little cross section for the wind to cause sway and you can move the towed vehicle forward and backwards to adjust weight. An enclosed car trailer is similar but you have a much larger cross section that can result in more sway. The hardest trailer would be an camper because you can't easily adjust the balance of the trailer to optimize tongue weight as the other 2 trailers.

Ram is the only truck manufacturer with an online payload calculator by VIN (again, because you'll find that the actual payload for builds varies greatly):



Ultimately, with a 1/2 ton someone should definitely have the vehicle (as loaded) + trailer over a certified scale to be near 100% sure they're within all the limits (rear axle weight rating + GCWR).
 
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DuraYuk

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Your link specifies the maximum payload for what usually is a 4x2 base trim regular cab short bed 1/2 ton pickup. If you end up with a 4x4 crew cab in an upper trim, your payload will be way below the maximum payload. Like I've said earlier, I've seen the data plates stamped on the door frame for these vehicles. GM usually does a bit better at 1450-1700lbs. Ram is the lowest usually at 900-1200 lbs for a Limited trim and Ford is around 1350-1500 for a Platinum trim. You're going to want around 15% on the tongue so that's around 1,200 lbs. You're going to use up most of your payload on the tongue weight of a 8,000lbs trailer.

In fact, a flat bed car trailer is one of the easiest types of trailers to optimize because there's little cross section for the wind to cause sway and you can move the towed vehicle forward and backwards to adjust weight. An enclosed car trailer is similar but you have a much larger cross section that can result in more sway. The hardest trailer would be an camper because you can't easily adjust the balance of the trailer to optimize tongue weight as the other 2 trailers.

Ram is the only truck manufacturer with an online payload calculator by VIN (again, because you'll find that the actual payload for builds varies greatly):



Ultimately, with a 1/2 ton someone should definitely have the vehicle (as loaded) + trailer over a certified scale to be near 100% sure they're within all the limits (rear axle weight rating + GCWR).

Towing capacity doesn't change for cab configuration by much. Payload has a 400 pound spread based on cab. You cannot get a single cab in the new trucks unless it's a stripped down work truck for fleet.

The GM trucks beat the dodges but actually trail the f150.

So again 1/2 ton is more then capable of doing what you described initially.

Tech has brought 1/2 pickups to the realm of yesterday's 3/4 ton trucks all while riding better and being more efficient.
 

Polo08816

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Towing capacity doesn't change for cab configuration by much. Payload has a 400 pound spread based on cab. You cannot get a single cab in the new trucks unless it's a stripped down work truck for fleet.

The GM trucks beat the dodges but actually trail the f150.

So again 1/2 ton is more then capable of doing what you described initially.

Tech has brought 1/2 pickups to the realm of yesterday's 3/4 ton trucks all while riding better and being more efficient.

The reoccurring theme here is that the numbers you are citing are largely special/unicorn cases and not a more common scenario.

The Heavy Duty Payload Package can only be optioned in the XL or XLT trims for the F150. The additional payload capacity is largely due to the effective spring rate of the leaf pack for that particular package. The last row with the combined rating of 4,800 is the Heavy Duty Payload Package. The 4,050/4,150 is the Max Tow package. All else equal, the F150 without the HDPP will have about 750lbs less payload than the max advertised payload from Ford. Most likely even less if you're referring to a higher trim F150.

Most GM 1500 pickups will tend to have more payload capacity than common F150s. That's why the GM 1500 pickups also ride a bit rougher or bumpier than the F150.

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Contrary to the layman's belief, the reason the 1/2 tons "may" tow as much as a HD pickup a decade or two ago isn't due to some secret squirrel "tech". It's because these trucks have grown in size to the point where they may physically be the same size or weight of a HD pickup a decade or two ago. But it's really hard to have significant payload capacity and ride well and comfortably at the same time.

It's actually going to be harder and harder to increase payload capacity as long as the EPA vehicle classification based on vehicle weight remain unchanged:


This is largely what separates 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and 1 ton pickups.
 

RedInCo

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We're drifting away from "Expedition vs. Yukon" but I have to mention this: I have test driven a few T1XX (2019 to 2021) pickups with "max trailering". All crew cab 4x4. An RST had payload of 2035 pounds. (5.3L, short bed, bucket seats w/ leather, no sunroof, no bed liner, no running boards). An SLT had 1784 (5.3L, standard bed, bucket seats, leather, sunroof, running boards). An LTZ had 1858 (6.2L, short bed, bucket seats, leather, no sunroof, no bedliner)
 

DuraYuk

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We're drifting away from "Expedition vs. Yukon" but I have to mention this: I have test driven a few T1XX (2019 to 2021) pickups with "max trailering". All crew cab 4x4. An RST had payload of 2035 pounds. (5.3L, short bed, bucket seats w/ leather, no sunroof, no bed liner, no running boards). An SLT had 1784 (5.3L, standard bed, bucket seats, leather, sunroof, running boards). An LTZ had 1858 (6.2L, short bed, bucket seats, leather, no sunroof, no bedliner)
Yup that's my point. Payload has increased across the board and not just for 'unicorns' like the one guy is implying. Anyways you are right we are going away from topic..
 

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