Burb shakes when braking - INTERMITTENT

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fozzi58

fozzi58

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*** UPDATE - MUST READ ***

So Wilwood calls me directly. We go through the whole story again with this tech on the phone. At the end he tells me my brakes were not bedded correctly. How do they work properly for 2~3 months of daily driving and then suddenly aren't proper anymore?

He said "re-bed your brakes. You have brake chatter. If you do it and the chatter isnt completely gone, then you should clean the rotors and re-bed again".

Took that with a grain a salt, printed out the Wilwood bedding process doc, and hit the highway. Wouldn't you know that after I tried to re-bed the brakes the chatter calmed down. It's not perfect but its a marked improvement. I'm going to have to wheel the rotors to cleam then up and re-bed yet again to see if that clears it up completely. I'm still getting intermittent chatter but its not as violent as before. I'm beside myself.

I know all brakes need to be bedded properly - oems, aftermarkets etc. But to have to go out and do this every couple of months is a pain in the ass.
 

exp500

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Thanks for the update! Keep posting on how this progresses.
 

CMoore711

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*** UPDATE - MUST READ ***

So Wilwood calls me directly. We go through the whole story again with this tech on the phone. At the end he tells me my brakes were not bedded correctly. How do they work properly for 2~3 months of daily driving and then suddenly aren't proper anymore?

He said "re-bed your brakes. You have brake chatter. If you do it and the chatter isnt completely gone, then you should clean the rotors and re-bed again".

Took that with a grain a salt, printed out the Wilwood bedding process doc, and hit the highway. Wouldn't you know that after I tried to re-bed the brakes the chatter calmed down. It's not perfect but its a marked improvement. I'm going to have to wheel the rotors to cleam then up and re-bed yet again to see if that clears it up completely. I'm still getting intermittent chatter but its not as violent as before. I'm beside myself.

I know all brakes need to be bedded properly - oems, aftermarkets etc. But to have to go out and do this every couple of months is a pain in the ass.

I'm not sure what to think if this really.

Like you I would have taken the advice Wilwood gave with a grain of salt, and just figured it was their way of trying to pass the buck. Which seems odd because I've had a great experience with Wilwood technical service. But what is even more weird is that you did the re-bed process and have noticed an improvement! It's a good thing, just interesting, and somewhat surprising.

I'm on my 2nd sent of front Wilwood BBK's up front, specifically the TX6R kit. My first Wilwood TX6R kit I bedded the brakes immediately after install and got 72K+ trouble free miles out of them before I replaced them. I never had to re-bed them they operated flawlessly. When I did replace them based on the remaining pad life left I probably could have gone another 5-8K miles, but was heading on a long trip and wanted them done before we left.

I'm convinced my issue is different than yours; If I hit a hard enough bump my front end has a metal on metal sound now coming from somewhere. It's not the control arms, ball joints, tie-rod ends, or struts.

I do need to get to the bottom of what's causing my issue cause it's driving me nuts.
 

CMoore711

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@fozzi58 Not sure if you have tried taking a wire brush to your rotors yet or not and if that helped or if re-bedding your brakes again has solved your issue completely but I figured I would post up the route of repair I chose since we have similar brake and suspension systems installed on our trucks.

After having my mechanic give the brakes and whole front end a thorough inspection to include inspecting the front brake calipers he confirmed that everything with my front-end suspension wise was in great condition (most parts recently replaced). He confirmed that there were no issues with my Wilwood 6-piston TX6R calipers and that the vibration and pulsing in the brakes was coming from the brake rotors themselves.

But I was still experiencing a "looseness" sensation up front and an "after shock" experience in the front-end after going over large bumps and sudden elevation changes in the road; ie sewer lids or grates, changes on the highway between bridge and roadway etc. This was despite confirming there were no issues with my recently replaced OEM front control arms, ball joints, inner/outter tie rods, sway bar mounts and end links.

So I ended up biting the bullet and purchasing new Wilwood rotor rings, front pads, and rotor bolt kits. Even though my front brakes only had maybe 10-12K miles on them. Which sucked but is what it is.

Additionally, after googling around the interwebs I had learned that a few other owners of Silverado/Sierras would talk about expereincing similar front end symptoms as I was and how replacing steering gear or steering mount bushings would resolve it. Another forum member had also informed me of an updated steering gear mount bushing part number specific to our K2XX SUV platform that GM updated and was a potential solution to some experiencing front end symptoms like I was describing. The new updated steering gear bushing is GM Part #84234960 and there are (2). The old bushings are filled with rubber, but leave these open slots on the sides of the bushing that are not filled with rubber. The new steering gear mount bushings GM Part #84234960 are filled with solid hard rubber, not slotted openings on the new ones.

Replacing my old 143K mile steering gear mount bushings with the new updated GM part number bushings has eliminated the play in my front end. No more do I experience or feel "looseness" or any "after shock" going over bumps. My truck rides like new again.

There is one takeaway and minor difference we noticed when replacing the front brakes this time.

First off keep in mind the front 16" Wilwood rotors are a 2-piece rotor design. Each rotor has a rotor ring; This is the slotted or dilled & slotted rotor part that is actually the surface area that the caliper and pad squeezes and makes contact with. The rotor ring is assembled to a Wilwood rotor hat that is basically the hub mounted area of the rotor that mounts to the wheel hub, the rotor ring and rotor hat is assembled with a Wilwood Bolt kit and each rotor is self-assembled with the rotor bolt kit with very specific assembly instructions, torque values, sequence of tightening, along with the use of some lock-tite for the assembly of the 2-piece rotors.

The first Wilwood TX6R Front BBK I had installed for 72K miles with zero brake issues the entire life, and upon rotor and pad replacement probably could have pushed the brake pads another 5-8K miles. The first set of rotor rings and rotor hats assembled with Wilwood Bolt Kit 230-12176 the bolts were torx bit. Disassembling them required the use of a torch and an impact gun turned up pretty high to get the bolts out and disassemble the 2-piece rotors.

The second set of Wilwood 16" 2-piece rotors were assembled the same way and also used Wilwood Bolt Kit 230-12176, however this time the bolts in the kit were hex head bolts and not torx bit. We didn't think anything of it really since the bolt kit was the same part # we figured it was just an "update" or something that didn't matter. As long as the same assembly instructions were followed all should be the same.

So we are now disassembling the second set of front 2-piece rotors, these are the ones that were only 10-12K miles old now pulsing vibrating like crazy under normal use. We did not have to take a torch to the rotor hat bolts (hex head bolts) to disassemble these ones. They unbolted much easier than the first set. Now, it's possible that this was because they were only 10-12K miles old vs. 72K miles on the first ones.

The third set of Wilwood 16" 2-piece rotors the latest Wilwood Bolt Kit 230-12176 showed up and they were with torx bit bolts now again like the originals and not with hex head bolts like on the second set. We have reassembled this third set of rotors and re-used the same rotor hats from my second set of rotors (the ones that were vibrating and pulsing like crazy) and all installed, pads and rotors bedded in, ZERO VIBRATION OR PULSING IN THE BRAKES NOW.

Maybe the rotor hat bolt kit being torx bit vs. hex head bolts makes a difference? Maybe it's just a coincidence? But it was the only variable or change between the 3 sets of brake rotors and the experience with them so far. I have only now had these brakes installed for a few days so they're still very new. I will report back if I experience any issues with them as I put more miles on them.
 
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fozzi58

fozzi58

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I rebedded my brakes multiple times since my last post. And while I noticed an improvement, the brake chatter/pulsing never went away. Replaced my tie rod ends too cause of someone else here said it was loose steering components. I doubt its the steering gear cause I dont have any loose-ness in my steering. In fact the steering is super tight.

I've called Wilwood again and they just repeated that I need to rebed my brakes. At this point I am done wasting money. I've got an appointment with my mechanic - I'm going back to OEM. The truck is undriveable. When I come up with money I will just get the brembo's from GM or direct from Brembo. I'm done with Wilwood and definitely wont be using them on anything else. Completely disappointed with the lack of care of customers. I know its everywhere with every company nowadays but it just doesnt sit right with me that even after 2 months of use they just blew me off. Especially in this day and age of social media
 
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fozzi58

fozzi58

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I was going to give up on the Wilwoods but couldnt let a $3000 BBK sit in a box for the next 5 years until I got around to figuring out what was wrong. I took @CMoore711 's example and ended up rolling the dice on a pair of rotors and pads.

Installed them over this weekend - NO MORE SHAKING!

I can't believe one of the rotors went. I'm kinda pissed that after 2~3 months of driving I ended up with a warped rotor - so bad to the point that after 55mph it felt like unbalanced wheels & tires. But I'm happy the issue is gone now. I'm also happy I didn't go back to OEMs. I really do like the Wilwoods but disappointed in the quality that I experienced. At least this chapter is over and I can move on to more pressing matters.

Thanks to everyone who had provided suggestions and things to check. Big shout out to @CMoore711 for posting his experience.
 

CMoore711

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Glad you found a resolution @fozzi58.

I'm with you on the warped rotor thing. The 16" rotors aren't cheap, and to have a set go bad prematurely definitely hurts. I kept mine and was considering getting a hold of Wilwood to see if there was anything that could be done, but I'm doubtful. There are so many variables that could have contributed to the rotors warping you just never know.
 

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