BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

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tjonesdfw

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I’m not disagreeing with you, I simply offered a possibility. Now, we can ask a question. What is the failure rate on the 25’s? I believe the rate on the 21-24’s were 3-4%. At this point if the 25’s were plagued with this problem, we’d know from several sources. The 25’s have been out for a year.
In addition, we should know about the trucks that have had the engines replaced post July of 24 as well.
Didn't mean to insinuate you were disagreeing. I wondered the same until I saw GM's statement about 2025s being ok, despite failure reports.

I suspect its still too early to tell what the failure rate on the '25 L87s is. Unless and until NHTSA receives enough complaints about the 2025 L87, we wont hear a peep about failures except through dealers, friends and forums. There's no conclusive way to prove or disprove any of those reports for people here. As for not wanting to jump into a 2025 or 2026, I'm just making a calculated guess based on the information I've received from trusted folks in the trenches that could have sold me and several friends new trucks, but told us to avoid the 2025 L87 for now.

The fact is, there's an acceptable failure rate on engines across the industry, and I've had some insiders argue its already around 2%. I doubt any manufacturer is going to publish their acceptable engine failure rates to verify that though. Clearly without ALL the data, which we'll never get from GM, we'll never know if the failure rate on the '21-'24s is really only 3-4%. I suspect its higher, because you can already get to that figure using the data they released in the NHTSA documents nearly 6 months ago, and engines are still failing. Even if it settles around 5-8%, then you still have a 95-92% chance you WON'T have a failure. To some in rural towns, or who don't drive as much, that's acceptable... motor quits, slide over to the shoulder or ditch and make a call. To others who are running 75+ on 6-7 lane tollways and interstates with no shoulders, regularly towing through desolate areas, or have disabled passengers, they may think differently. To each their own.
 

Blueinterceptor

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I wonder if gm did or attempted an in depth study of the failures.
What was the maintenance habits, driving habits and towing habits of the failed vehicles.
How often was the oil changed?
Was it 5000, 7500 mile intervals?
Did they tow regularly, what was the weight of the towed items?
Was the driver the kind of person that drove conservatively or thought they had a Porsche?
Did the vehicles have max towing packages?
 

L87Victim

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I know this topic of the L87 has been very drawn out, but what are repair times you guys have been seeing/experiencing? I have a '21 Yukon Denali that has been at the dealer for 4 months with no end in sight.

My first motor was supposed to come in back between April 24th-26th, but the recall hit on the 24th and GM had stopped shipping out motors.

A motor did come in back in May, but it was the wrong one with different injector sizes.

I have a loaner and I also have a case with GM and their parts delay team, so they know about it.

I also did not buy the vehicle new and nor was it a GM dealer.

I'm just curious for any input. Thanks.
 

tagexpcom

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I know this topic of the L87 has been very drawn out, but what are repair times you guys have been seeing/experiencing? I have a '21 Yukon Denali that has been at the dealer for 4 months with no end in sight.
...
I read that recall(s) have a requirement for 60day completion as part of the specifics? Maybe someone can clarify.
1752935754118.png


4 months would be too long if this is true. Glad they gave you a ride in the meantime :)
 
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vcode

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Scarey

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Has anybody here failed the inspection and been scheduled for an engine replacement, based solely on the inspection?
 

PPV_2018

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I wonder if gm did or attempted an in depth study of the failures.
What was the maintenance habits, driving habits and towing habits of the failed vehicles.
How often was the oil changed?
Was it 5000, 7500 mile intervals?
Did they tow regularly, what was the weight of the towed items?
Was the driver the kind of person that drove conservatively or thought they had a Porsche?
Did the vehicles have max towing packages?

You a betting man ? I’m not .. but I’d wager there’s a 100% chance, no.
 

Antonm

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I wouldn’t take that bet as it would be exhausting and the responses might not be truthful for fear of warranty voiding

They wouldn’t need to ask a single question to anyone to get those answers.

Remember when GM was selling our driving statics to lexusnexus and they were selling them to insurance companies?

The lawsuit didn’t stop GM from collecting our data, the lawsuit was about them selling the data.

GM knows with 100% certainly (without needing to ask a single question) all that information. Onstar ( even if you’re not subscribed) reports it all the GM.
 

PPV_2018

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They wouldn’t need to ask a single question to anyone to get those answers.

Remember when GM was selling our driving statics to lexusnexus and they were selling them to insurance companies?

The lawsuit didn’t stop GM from collecting our data, the lawsuit was about them selling the data.

GM knows with 100% certainly (without needing to ask a single question) all that information. Onstar ( even if you’re not subscribed) reports it all the GM.

1. ) do you think that onStar monitoring alone would be able to tell the weight of the oil, and when it was changed, among other things. Personally i do not see onStar being that capable for finer details such as that. Many have speculated that GM itself would probably have no clue what weight oil was being used without extensive laboratory testing which may end up being inconclusive anyways. . Not to say that, onStar couldn’t tell if the vehicle was being used for towing and stuff . . That’s plausible

2.) onStar can be deleted (i know the typical owner would not go thru the hassle), like how it’s deleted off my k2. Now if the T1’s are more difficult to do is a question of which i do not know the answer. But whether or not owners have figured out a way to intentionally delete onStar on their T1, onStar apparently has been deleting itself on the T1’s with the VCI module failures we’ve heard about now and then here on the forum.
 

Antonm

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1. ) do you think that onStar monitoring alone would be able to tell the weight of the oil, and when it was changed, among other things. Personally i do not see onStar being that capable for finer details such as that. Many have speculated that GM itself would probably have no clue what weight oil was being used without extensive laboratory testing which may end up being inconclusive anyways. . Not to say that, onStar couldn’t tell if the vehicle was being used for towing and stuff . . That’s plausible

2.) onStar can be deleted (i know the typical owner would not go thru the hassle), like how it’s deleted off my k2. Now if the T1’s are more difficult to do is a question of which i do not know the answer. But whether or not owners have figured out a way to intentionally delete onStar on their T1, onStar apparently has been deleting itself on the T1’s with the VCI module failures we’ve heard about now and then here on the forum.

1.) Yes OnStar would be able to tell oil weight indirectly based off engine load, engine temperature and oil pressure. A simple algorithm (like unpaid intern level simple) could easily take the knowns and derive the oil weight.

And as for towing, OnStar can pretty much directly read that. Engine load , throttle position , acceleration g's. If the transmission can tell when you're towing and adjust the shift setpoints, then yeah the PCM knows and in turn OnStar knows.

2.) Yeap, OnStar can be disabled pretty easily by unplugging the antenna ( connection is behind the driver side A pillar interior trim on these I think). But I'm gonna go with less that 1% of these SUV's have that done (and 1% is probably a very generous number), so GM has plenty of statically viable data.

And remember , this whole data collection thing isn't tin-foil hat crazy talk, they have literally been sued over selling your driving habits (speed, braking force g's, turning force g's, etc) to insurance companies. And nowhere is the lawsuit was anything about them collecting the data, the lawsuit was just about them selling the data, they're still collecting.

Bottom line , GM has all the information, what (if anything) they choose to do with it is anyone's guess.
...
 

Silverado4x4

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I believe all this Onstar monitoring how vehicles are driven is all BS anyway, they would have to monitor millions of vehicles on the road and that's not going to happen.
 

Silverado4x4

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Antonm

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I believe all this Onstar monitoring how vehicles are driven is all BS anyway, they would have to monitor millions of vehicles on the road and that's not going to happen.

Really, see links below, from NY times , CBS and Edmonds. All main stream non-tin foil hat news outlets. Plenty (and I mean plenty) of other articles, press releases, You tube videos, social media posts, etc. out there about it too.




I think you underestimate the amount of computing power that's available cheap these days. Its not humans behind computer screens monitoring stuff, it all automated. Give me (a regular average Joe) about 1/2 a million dollars and I can put you together a computer data mining system that will record and categorize any amount of data it has access to using off-the-shelf hardware and commercially available software.

Ever heard of the company "Workday Inc"? Link below. They do exactly such data mining and processing like that for several fortune 500 companies, and the amount of data they can give you in real time is just amazing. And new metrics/ statics can be added in seconds.


Querying the collected data for specific things (like say idle time %, or how often the OLM was reset, or average moving speed ) would be stupid simple and literally take microseconds to get back the statics on millions of data points. Writing a few algorithms to derive other information from the known data wouldn't take long either (we're talking a few hours to write them , a few days to test them, and online in a week).

GM has all the information they need to know what set of conditions causes the most failures. But don't confuse GM with a charity organization, any information they have will only be used for their financial benefit and they have no duty or obligation to report anything to anyone.
...
 
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Antonm

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If OnStar was that capable they could tell who was going to have a bearing failure.

They likely can with high percentage of certainly.

Again, GM is not a charity organization, if they could predict that an engine was going to fail 1 mile after the warranty expiration then to them that's a win. They have no duty or obligation to tell anyone a damn thing. And why would they if it could negatively affect their bottom line?

Also remember, GM went through three "investigations" before the recall was actually issued. It wasn't until the fourth investigation that NHTSA said enough is enough, and forced a recall. GM told NHTSA "nothing to see here" on the first three investigations because no way are they voluntary gonna give up millions of dollars.

And this mindset is not new or even unique to GM. BWM got busted in the 2000's for having software that just turned off certain computer modules bases off time and vehicle milage (they called it planned obsolescence), nothing "broke" they just got turned off because the programing said is was time too. VW got busted turning off emissions control devices when the computer knew it wasn't being tested so the vehicles could make it past the warranty timeframe (this happened in the late 2000's) .
...
 
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Stbentoak

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I wonder if gm did or attempted an in depth study of the failures.
What was the maintenance habits, driving habits and towing habits of the failed vehicles.
How often was the oil changed?
Was it 5000, 7500 mile intervals?
Did they tow regularly, what was the weight of the towed items?
Was the driver the kind of person that drove conservatively or thought they had a Porsche?
Did the vehicles have max towing packages?
Why would any of this matter? Is it outside the allowable recommendations and use of the vehicle? As long as you are maintaining and operating it by the book, any and all of these things are up to the owner's purpose and function and shouldn't cause premature engine failure of a proper engine.......
 

Silverado4x4

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Really, see links below, from NY times , CBS and Edmonds. All main stream non-tin foil hat news outlets. Plenty (and I mean plenty) of other articles, press releases, You tube videos, social media posts, etc. out there about it too.




I think you underestimate the amount of computing power that's available cheap these days. Its not humans behind computer screens monitoring stuff, it all automated. Give me (a regular average Joe) about 1/2 a million dollars and I can put you together a computer data mining system that will record and categorize any amount of data it has access to using off-the-shelf hardware and commercially available software.

Ever heard of the company "Workday Inc"? Link below. They do exactly such data mining and processing like that for several fortune 500 companies, and the amount of data they can give you in real time is just amazing. And new metrics/ statics can be added in seconds.


Querying the collected data for specific things (like say idle time %, or how often the OLM was reset, or average moving speed ) would be stupid simple and literally take microseconds to get back the statics on millions of data points. Writing a few algorithms to derive other information from the known data wouldn't take long either (we're talking a few hours to write them , a few days to test them, and online in a week).

GM has all the information they need to know what set of conditions causes the most failures. But don't confuse GM with a charity organization, any information they have will only be used for their financial benefit and they have no duty or obligation to report anything to anyone.
...
Those links you posted are old that's when Onstar had the Smartdriver app and you had to accept privacy access 3 times before you could fully install the app and that did record your driving habits and send it to the 3rd party company's which sent it to insurance company's but they got rid of the app due to privacy concerns. So if you think they still do it that would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits.
 

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