Advice NEEDED!

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jasonconway5

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181K on my stock/factory 4l60e. Its getting time to replace, and after replacing the stock wheels and tires with ones that weigh more than double, I can tell it. The question is, should I replace with another 4l60e, or is it possible or better to replace with a 4L65E? So, whats better and whats the cheapest you guys have seen either one? My hoe is a 2000, new body style. Thanks in advance!

---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

bump
 

franksbanks

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181K on my stock/factory 4l60e. Its getting time to replace, and after replacing the stock wheels and tires with ones that weigh more than double, I can tell it. The question is, should I replace with another 4l60e, or is it possible or better to replace with a 4L65E? So, whats better and whats the cheapest you guys have seen either one? My hoe is a 2000, new body style. Thanks in advance!

---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

bump

how is it that you can tell? is there any "new" noises coming from the 4l60e? or is it taking longer to shift?

either way- the 4L65E is stronger and can handle more punishment- they’re almost identical and everything in a 65e should swap over no problem- here is some info I found from another forum-

****
The 4L65E is available from GM as a service item for people wanting to replace their 4L60E. The 4L65E P/N is 24221888

The differences between the 4L65E vs. the 4L60E are:
- Five pinion gears for reaction and input gear sets instead of four
- Input sun gears made from powdered metal
- Heat treated stator shaft splines
- Induction hardened turbine shaft
- Heavier duty low/reverse roller clutch
- Additional friction plate added to the 3-4 clutch (7 plates vs. 6)
- Shot peened output shaft
- Revised valve body calibration

Most significant improvement is the use of the five pinion gears for input and reaction gearsets
********
 

Donnie Yukonie

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This is the First Im hearing of the 65??? Is their any PCM updates needed ?
 

franksbanks

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heres more info i found- on another forum-** ****

Here is all the info on the 4l65-E tranny. It is a direct swap with the 4L60 and the shaft does not need to be swapped if you get the truck version. It comes in all the AWD trucks and has the same shaft as all 4WD trucks.


4L60-E HD and 4L65-E Transmission Features & Benefits
(the 4L60-E HD was renamed, unchanged, to the 4L65-E in 2002)


OVERVIEW
An extremely versatile transmission, the 4L6 series serves in a wide range of applications. Its sophisticated electronic controls and high-torque capabilities allow it to serve in everything from the high-performance Firebird to the GMC Yukon XL.

New for 2001 is the 4L60-E HD, a heavy-duty version of the 4L60-E designed to withstand the higher torque loads of GM's LQ4 6.0-liter gas engine in the GMC Denali and C3. The 4L60-HD features a host of more robust parts that provide increased strength, which allows owners of these luxury sport utilities to enjoy excellent powertrain performance at a reduced overall vehicle weight. In 2002 this HD transmission was renamed to the 4L65-E and is used in all the Cadilac Escalades, GMC Denali’s, Sierra Denali’s and Chevy SS, and Corvette C5 to name a few.

NEW OR CHANGED FOR 2001 MODEL YEAR

4L60-E HD
· Strengthened Input and Reaction Gearsets with 5-Pinion, Powder Metal Carriers
· Heat-Treated Stator Shaft Splines
· Aluminum Stator Shaft Bushing
· Induction-Hardened Turbine Shaft
· Heavy-Duty Low/Reverse Roller Clutch
· Additional Friction Plate in the 3-4 Clutch
· Improved Input Carrier and Reaction Shell Thrust Bearings
· Shot-Peened Output Shaft
· Revised Valve Body Calibration

CUSTOMER BENEFITS

4L60-E HD / 4L65-E STRENGTHENED INPUT AND REACTION GEARSETS WITH 5-PINION, POWDER METAL CARRIERS (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
The input and reaction gearsets are each composed of a sun gear, pinion (or "planetary") gears and a ring gear. Both gearsets now use five pinion gears instead of four. The additional pinion gear spreads torque loads around to reduce the load supported by any one gear, in both compression and bending. Together with this change is a switch to higher-quality bronze batwing washers, which ride under each pinion gear and serve as a bearing surface.

Additionally, the pinion gear carrier in each gearset is now made with powder metal. Powder metal parts are formed by pouring a fine metal powder into a die, which is then subjected to extreme heat and pressure to cause the powder to flow and fuse into a solid material. This process allows for more precise detail on each part, and for more consistent parts and higher strength.

HEAT-TREATED STATOR SHAFT SPLINES (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
The stator shaft is a fixed, hollow shaft splined to the torque converter stator roller clutch on one end and attached to the pump assembly, which is fixed to the transmission case, on the other end. The splines that mesh with the hub of the stator roller clutch are now heat-treated for added strength. Heat treating involves subjecting a part to a sequence of heating and cooling cycles to relieve internal stresses in the metal in order to attain a desired hardness and strength.

ALUMINUM STATOR SHAFT BUSHINGS (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
The turbine shaft is the main shaft transferring torque from the torque converter into the transmission. It connects to the torque converter turbine assembly on one end and the overdrive carrier assembly on the other. The shaft rides inside the fixed, hollow stator shaft and is supported by two bushings. These bushings are now made out of aluminum instead of a steel-backed bronze. The aluminum is a superior material that can handle higher loads.

INDUCTION-HARDENED TURBINE SHAFT (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
The turbine shaft is the main shaft transferring torque from the torque converter into the transmission. It connects to the torque converter turbine assembly on one end and the overdrive carrier assembly on the other. This shaft is now induction hardened for greater strength. Induction hardening is a type of heat treating in which a part is subjected to a sequence of heating and cooling cycles through the application of strong electric current. These heating and cooling cycles relieve internal stresses in the metal in order to attain a desired hardness and strength.

HEAVY-DUTY LOW/REVERSE ROLLER CLUTCH (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
A roller clutch is a type of one-way clutch with a series of rollers riding in ramps in an outer race. The ramps are shaped such that the rollers can run free in one direction, but are wedged against the outer race if the clutch is rotated in the opposite direction, thereby locking the clutch. The low/reverse roller clutch is activated in the first-gear position and thus sees the highest torque loads. This clutch now has larger diameter rollers to withstand the increased loads.

ADDITIONAL FRICTION PLATE IN THE 3-4 CLUTCH (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
This clutch now has seven friction plates instead of six, as well as harder core steel in those friction plates. The changes results in higher shift energy capacity.

IMPROVED INPUT CARRIER AND REACTION SHELL THRUST BEARINGS (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
The input and reaction gearsets have various components, such as sun gears and pinion gear carriers, rotating at different speeds in close proximity to one another. At these interfaces, thrust washers or bearings are used to reduce friction and support any load that may occur between the parts. In the case of the interface between the reaction shaft and the reaction sun gear and shell, a heavy-duty, needle-type thrust bearing is now used in place of a thrust washer in order to withstand increased loads. On the opposite side of the reaction shell, where it rides against the input pinion carrier, the thrust bearing has been upgraded to withstand higher loads.

SHOT-PEENED OUTPUT SHAFT (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
The output shaft is the final shaft in the flow of power through the transmission. It transfers torque from the output planetary gearset to the drive shaft and on to the rear axle. This shaft is now shot-peened in high-stress areas to increase strength. Shot-peening involves blasting a part with beads of a harder material in order to relieve surface stresses to produce a higher fatigue life.

REVISED VALVE BODY CALIBRATION (4L60-E HD / 4L65-E)
As with any new engine application, the calibration of the hydraulic system, such as line pressure and shift timing, has been adjusted to optimize shift feel given the revised engine torque curve. Additionally, the springs in the accumulator valve (a spring-loaded device that absorbs a certain amount of fluid pressure in a circuit to cushion clutch engagement according to engine torque) have been replaced with stronger ones to withstand higher fluid pressure.

CONTINUING FEATURES AND BENEFITS

HISTORY
In 1999 the Hydra-matic 4L60-E received several improvements, including new pump cover seals for improved sealing, new clutch plate materials for improved durability and performance, and Teflon-coated bushings to reduce friction.

TWO-PIECE CASE
The 4L60-E and 4L60-E HD / 4L65-E use a two-piece transmission case with a 360-degree bell housing that completely encloses the torque converter assembly, instead of traditional three-piece construction with a partial bell housing. The result is a dramatic increase in powertrain stiffness and significantly reduced levels of noise and vibration.

This bell housing is modified to suit the wide range of vehicles the 4L60-E serves in, which includes a large line of trucks as well as the Firebird.

ELECTRONIC CONTROLLED CAPACITY CLUTCH (ECCC)
The 4L60-E and 4L60-E HD / 4L65-E use an electronic controlled capacity clutch (used instead of a mechanical lock-up clutch). This clutch uses sophisticated electronics to maintain very small amounts of slip between the pressure plate and the torque converter housing cover. The ability to precisely control continuously variable amounts of slip leads to reduced torque pulses and allows the clutch to be applied at lower vehicle speeds and with smoother engagement. This results in improved drivability and better fuel economy.

ADAPTIVE SHIFT CONTROL
The 4L60-E and 4L60-E HD / 4L65-E use sophisticated electronics to modify shift patterns as conditions dictate. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) monitors factors such as throttle position, vehicle speed, gear range, temperature and engine load. The PCM also measures changes in the operating condition of the vehicle, which occur naturally over time as components wear. Based on these measurements, shift timing and hydraulic line pressure are adapted to maintain optimum shift feel under different conditions - for example, during heavy hauling or trailering. This results in improved drivability and fuel economy. The PCM also allows the system to self-adjust for minor variations in each new unit, ensuring that every customer experiences consistent performance, and ensuring that the transmission will produce a constant high level of performance for the life of the car.

ABUSE AND SHIFT TORQUE MANAGEMENT
When a driver mistakenly subjects a vehicle to an abusive maneuver, such as moving quickly from drive to reverse while rocking the car to get out of a snow drift, abnormal wear can occur. The 4L60-E's PCM helps to protect the powertrain by retarding spark to reduce engine output during such situations. Similarly, the PCM briefly cuts engine torque prior to each shift to reduce driveline lash, thus producing smoother shifts.

SHIFT STABILIZATION
A common problem in climbing or descending hills is "shift business," which is the tendency of the transmission to hunt between gears. The PCM addresses this issue by sensing when the vehicle is operating on a grade and selecting and holding an appropriate gear, based on throttle position, engine speed and other factors.

SECOND GEAR START
The second gear start option on the 4L60-E and 4L60-E HD / 4L65-E provides an extra measure of security and control in hazardous driving conditions. By moving the gear selector to the D2 position, the driver can reduce engine torque to the drive wheels, increasing control during initial acceleration on slippery roads.

LOW MAINTENANCE
The 4L60-E and 4L60-E HD / 4L65-E use long-life DEXRON III transmission fluid, which has a 100,000-mile service interval under normal use (50,000-mile for severe use). Additionally, the PCM monitors operating conditions of the transaxle and alerts the driver with a warning light if there is a deterioration that would cause a significant loss in vehicle performance, such as shift feel or drivability. The PCM also monitors for deteriorations that would allow the vehicle to exceed acceptable emissions levels, in compliance with OBD II regulations.
 
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jasonconway5

jasonconway5

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how is it that you can tell? is there any "new" noises coming from the 4l60e? or is it taking longer to shift?

either way- the 4L65E is stronger and can handle more punishment- they’re almost identical and everything in a 65e should swap over no problem- here is some info I found from another forum-

****
The 4L65E is available from GM as a service item for people wanting to replace their 4L60E. The 4L65E P/N is 24221888

The differences between the 4L65E vs. the 4L60E are:
- Five pinion gears for reaction and input gear sets instead of four
- Input sun gears made from powdered metal
- Heat treated stator shaft splines
- Induction hardened turbine shaft
- Heavier duty low/reverse roller clutch
- Additional friction plate added to the 3-4 clutch (7 plates vs. 6)
- Shot peened output shaft
- Revised valve body calibration

Most significant improvement is the use of the five pinion gears for input and reaction gearsets
********
YES! I get high revs in between shifts from 2nd to 3rd under load.
 

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