Steering Noise Help Needed, 2013 Yukon Denali Hybrid

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Marc Marc

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Expert help is needed, not just by me, but also my GMC dealer who cannot determine the problem. Long story, but will condense to the pertinent information.

I am the original owner, and love this car as it meets most of my needs including towing a bassboat. I bought it late in the model year, and it is one of the last models before ending production. I have 135,000 miles and drive between the Puget Sound to Orange County, SoCal a couple of times a month, which accounts for most of the mileage.

My wife noticed (more than I) that at freeway speeds the car was drifting more than when new, and that I was making corrections with my steering to keep the Denali straight. It was most noticeable on high speed curves like passing through Lake Shasta hills.

Since I want to keep this vehicle and can't replace it, I bit the bullet and took it to the dealer thinking I needed to replace steering components, or since it has electronic assisted steering (which I don't know much about) I thought maybe there could be a position sensor adjustment necessary.

The official diagnosis was a worn steeringgear box and lower steeringshaft. I had them replace the parts as I work long hours and don't have time anymore to work on my car myself.

I picked up my car and it seemed the steering was tighter, but when parking in my driveway, heard a new noise when turning the steeringwheel. It is most noticeable when parked, with the engine running, and then turning the steeringwheel from stop to stop. Seconds after starting the turning, I hear a soft noise that sounds like a constant ssshhhhhhhhh only while turning the wheel. At speed you don't hear it above road noise, but whenever turning the wheel when stopped you clearly hear it.

I returned to the dealer and to make a long story short, after three weeks of my car in the shop, and after replacing the steeringgear box three times (yes, 3 times), I finally took back my car and the noise is still there. They readily admit they cannot determine the problem. They have called up the chain of command, which is why they replaced the steeringgear box 3 times, and they still have no answer for the problem.

The noise was never there prior to their work.

Since I need this vehicle for my work and fishing, and they have no idea what to try next, I am driving it as is instead of being in rental cars any longer. The dealer wants me to drive it and see if the noise goes away (still here a week later and many more miles), or gets worse so they can find the problem and then fix it.

So, any suggestions what I should be looking for in locating this noise?

I don't think the dealer has much experience with this model, as it is a Hybrid, and has Electronic Steering. Certainly I don't have the experience to troubleshoot this.

Originally I thought something was rubbing the steeringshaft, but now I am suspecting the problem is more likely associated with the electronic steering. It kind of reminds me of the noise a servo would make on some military equipment I used to work with.

Other than the noise, the steering performs as it should.

Any help from the experts is much appreciated!!

ciao,

Marc
 
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Marc Marc

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Anybody have any advice for me? I would really appreciate your thoughts as I want to get the problem resolved. The car continues to drive and steer fine, but the noise continues just the same. Thank you.

Marc

Expert help is needed, not just by me, but also my GMC dealer who cannot determine the problem. Long story, but will condense to the pertinent information.

I am the original owner, and love this car as it meets most of my needs including towing a bassboat. I bought it late in the model year, and it is one of the last models before ending production. I have 135,000 miles and drive between the Puget Sound to Orange County, SoCal a couple of times a month, which accounts for most of the mileage.

My wife noticed (more than I) that at freeway speeds the car was drifting more than when new, and that I was making corrections with my steering to keep the Denali straight. It was most noticeable on high speed curves like passing through Lake Shasta hills.

Since I want to keep this vehicle and can't replace it, I bit the bullet and took it to the dealer thinking I needed to replace steering components, or since it has electronic assisted steering (which I don't know much about) I thought maybe there could be a position sensor adjustment necessary.

The official diagnosis was a worn steeringgear box and lower steeringshaft. I had them replace the parts as I work long hours and don't have time anymore to work on my car myself.

I picked up my car and it seemed the steering was tighter, but when parking in my driveway, heard a new noise when turning the steeringwheel. It is most noticeable when parked, with the engine running, and then turning the steeringwheel from stop to stop. Seconds after starting the turning, I hear a soft noise that sounds like a constant ssshhhhhhhhh only while turning the wheel. At speed you don't hear it above road noise, but whenever turning the wheel when stopped you clearly hear it.

I returned to the dealer and to make a long story short, after three weeks of my car in the shop, and after replacing the steeringgear box three times (yes, 3 times), I finally took back my car and the noise is still there. They readily admit they cannot determine the problem. They have called up the chain of command, which is why they replaced the steeringgear box 3 times, and they still have no answer for the problem.

The noise was never there prior to their work.

Since I need this vehicle for my work and fishing, and they have no idea what to try next, I am driving it as is instead of being in rental cars any longer. The dealer wants me to drive it and see if the noise goes away (still here a week later and many more miles), or gets worse so they can find the problem and then fix it.

So, any suggestions what I should be looking for in locating this noise?

I don't think the dealer has much experience with this model, as it is a Hybrid, and has Electronic Steering. Certainly I don't have the experience to troubleshoot this.

Originally I thought something was rubbing the steeringshaft, but now I am suspecting the problem is more likely associated with the electronic steering. It kind of reminds me of the noise a servo would make on some military equipment I used to work with.

Other than the noise, the steering performs as it should.

Any help from the experts is much appreciated!!

ciao,

Marc
 

dnt1010

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Like other people I think the Hybrid system has some fascinating technology. Pulling up a diagram of the GM electric Hybrid steering system (EPS) there does not appear to be very much to it at all. Do you know if they replaced the entire steering system or if they are reusing some components like the electric motor itself? If they are reusing the electric motor they may have damaged it in some way and it is noisy now?
MA0511-Undercar.jpg

One thing that migh help to diagnose the electric assist motor is to turn the steering all the way to the stop in both directions. As the steering closes in to the full stop position the assist should decrease to zero. Does the noise start fading as you approach full turn and then go away completely at the full stop position? If it does then I would say that the electric assist motor is the culprit and should be replaced.
 
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Marc Marc

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Like other people I think the Hybrid system has some fascinating technology. Pulling up a diagram of the GM electric Hybrid steering system (EPS) there does not appear to be very much to it at all. Do you know if they replaced the entire steering system or if they are reusing some components like the electric motor itself? If they are reusing the electric motor they may have damaged it in some way and it is noisy now?
MA0511-Undercar.jpg

One thing that migh help to diagnose the electric assist motor is to turn the steering all the way to the stop in both directions. As the steering closes in to the full stop position the assist should decrease to zero. Does the noise start fading as you approach full turn and then go away completely at the full stop position? If it does then I would say that the electric assist motor is the culprit and should be replaced.
Thank you for the reply. I still have the noise problem, and will check today the position when the noise starts and then stops again.

The dealer has replaced the steering gear box three times, and the lower steering shaft, all with new parts. He claims he hasn't touched the electric motor.

I "suspect" (no way of knowing) that maybe it got tweaked when the mechanic removed the steering shaft and gear box, and a bearing or bushing is rubbing, though I have no knowledge how the electric motor assembly is built.

Your picture is too small for me to look at closely...how can I find this type of information for my hybrid? I think I will need to do more of my own work now that I have 145K miles and good mechanics (especially for hybrids) are in short supply.

Thank you for your reply, and Merry Christmas!
 
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Marc Marc

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I cycled the steering wheel from full stop to stop. The noise started as soon as the steering wheel was in motion, and was continuous all the way to the opposite stop. It did not stop making the same noise at any point until I stopped moving the steering wheel.

The noise does, however, increase in volume if I move the wheel faster.

The noise does sound like it is coming from in the dash area from the steering column, and is hard to describe the noise it makes. I would describe it as a shoosh noise.

It is easier to hear and still occurs when the engine autostop is on.

Despite the noise, the steering functions exactly like it did prior to the noise, with no problem. It clearly started when the dealer replaced the lower steering shaft and steering gear, so I have to believe they tweaked something during the replacement.

Merry Christmas!
 

dnt1010

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Well I guess we are both going to have to learn a lot more about the GM electric steering. Here is a youtube that I got the other day of my 2009 with 200k miles.
It started out making a small noise only occasionally (kind of like what you described) but it has quickly progressed into a very loud obnoxious sound. I just jacked up the truck and pulled the drivers wheel off. I though maybe a ball joint was frozen up so I popped the tierod off and ball joints are good I then turned the wheel with the tierod still off and the noise is in the electric steering mechanism. Interesting thing is it DOES taper off towards full turn so I am leaning towards the electric motor on mine but still researching..... I will post some more info and pics as I figure it out.
 
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Marc Marc

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Well I guess we are both going to have to learn a lot more about the GM electric steering. Here is a youtube that I got the other day of my 2009 with 200k miles.
It started out making a small noise only occasionally (kind of like what you described) but it has quickly progressed into a very loud obnoxious sound. I just jacked up the truck and pulled the drivers wheel off. I though maybe a ball joint was frozen up so I popped the tierod off and ball joints are good I then turned the wheel with the tierod still off and the noise is in the electric steering mechanism. Interesting thing is it DOES taper off towards full turn so I am leaning towards the electric motor on mine but still researching..... I will post some more info and pics as I figure it out.
Interesting; your noise is similar in sound to mine; except mine is much quieter and has not changed in volume or tone since the day it started after the dealer changed my gear box. Yes, let me know what you find out. Thanks!
 

dnt1010

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It is almost impossible to pinpoint a steering noise without isolating each component. I put the tahoe on a lift today and pulled BOTH front wheels and Both tierod ends. I had a helper turn the steering wheel and the electric steering mechanism is fine. No noise in it at all. I then turned both rotors to make sure the axle shaft joints and front differential were OK all good there. Then grabbed the steering knuckles and worked them back and forth I found that the passenger side lower ball joint was making the noise, it did not have any perceptible play or looseness in it so I took a grease needle and filled the boot with grease on both lower and upper ball joint. The Passenger side has the "Factory" ball joints and they DO NOT have grease fittings (Thanks GM good thinking) I worked it back and forth a few times then raised the knuckle with a jack and worked it some more in a few different elevations until it eventually stopped squeaking. I put everything back together. I am sure they are both damaged after being that dry of grease (plus of course having 200,000 miles on them) so I will replace them maybe when the weather warms up a bit. It looks to be a bit of a job to do that so I am not looking froward to it. Glad it was not an electric steering system problem like I originally thought. Ball joints are cheap. I know it is a lot of trouble but if you really want to determine the noise source you will have to take it apart and separate the components and check each one.
 

BG1988

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Interesting; your noise is similar in sound to mine; except mine is much quieter and has not changed in volume or tone since the day it started after the dealer changed my gear box. Yes, let me know what you find out. Thanks!
bet ya its one of the pullies on the motor those make a lot of noise after 100k
 

dnt1010

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It ws the passenger side ball joints. I have the tierod disconnected in the video. It was impossible to isolate the noise without pulling the tierods to isolate each steering part.
 
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