New Truck in Town vs GM Units

[GTNator]

So what does ford need to jump ahead (of the Tahoe)?

More horsepower? More torque? Better gas mileage? Higher towing capacity? Nicer interiors?

That’s what it (Ford) has now with the 2018 Expedition/Navigator. It’s GM’s turn now to catch up, in my opinion.



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[Mattsred03]

...and if ford ever builds an Excursion again????

What Excursion? Its not even being talked about or considered at Ford. What if they build another Thunderbird? For now, they won't. It's a non-issue. The Suburban already exists in 2500 form for government/military special purchase only. They could launch civilian versions in a matter of weeks if they had to. But the Excursion is dead and for the foreseeable future, it will thankfully stay that way. The last version they made was 10 years too late to the party. Too little, too late. Ford is going to try to put the new Bronco against the Tahoe where it will fail in every category except off road. But like a Jeep, why do you buy one to keep it on the pavement? (Maybe not you, I'm not pointing at you specifically, but I digress) If the Excursion ever gets brought up at the conversation table at Ford, they are once again going to have to try to be at least as good as something that already exists by GM.

 

[cardude2000]

gas mileage was about the same too!.

uh huh.

Kind of like your 12MPG buick that you magically got '36MPG' with lol.

 

[Mattsred03]

So what does ford need to jump ahead (of the Tahoe)?

More horsepower? More torque? Better gas mileage? Higher towing capacity? Nicer interiors?

They will not jump ahead any time soon. Tahoe, Suburban, their GMC/Caddy brothers, Sequoia, QX, GL class all ride well enough that if you spend 12 hours in them, you don't feel beat up at the end of your drive. Ford needs to improve their ride.
Ford I believe is class leading in power so that doesn't even need to be brought up. It's how they develop that power and the longevity a boosted engine really has.
The interiors are purely preference. Some people rave about Sync and my touch. Others hate it. I think Chevy needs to improve too. MB GLs and Infinity QX handily beat Chevy and Ford. But that's a Navigator/Escalade comparo.
The mileage is fine. If you buy a full size SUV and your primary concern is fuel economy, why are you buying a modern land barge? This is probably why I'd make a terrible sales person. Fuel economy should be an after the fact bragging right in full size BOF SUVs.
The Ford's are fine. But the reason they won't pass the Tahoe is because Ford makes a product and sticks with it far too long. There have only been 4 changes to Mustang in the last 45 years. 4 to F-150 in 40 years. I could go on but you get my point. They are rarely class leading in anything because they don't innovate. Thanks for the moving assembly line. Every other time Ford tries to innovate, its usually a fail. Ecoboost is a sucess for now. But to beat your competition, you have to do everything it does better. For Tahoe, that's 250,000 miles of comfortable, relatively trouble free driving with enough features to keep a driver loving their car a little more every day. The ink isn't dry on the first sold 2018 Expeditions so it's hard to say if they will be preferred over Tahoe, but I doubt it. I think they aimed to be relevant again. There is nothing new or exciting about this new version. You may as well call it a new model instead of a new generation. Lincoln, you could likewise look at as a new upstart car company because they are doing everything completely different as evident in the Navigator and Contentential.
Maybe you prefer the Expedition. It looks nice. But then again, so does Tahoe, QX, Sequoia... It handles well thanks to a modern setup. So does Tahoe, QX... does it ride well? I don't know. Haven't driven one. Bit if Ford's past SUVs are in this new Expedition, then no. Did they fix the glitchy Sync system? Don't know. We'll find out in about a year.
What do they need to do to beat the Tahoe? It doesn't matter at the moment. They need to first make a vehicle that is worth a damn in its own segment. And on that point, so does the Nissan Armada. Then they can start fine tuning it to beat Tahoe.

 

[cardude2000]

They will not jump ahead any time soon. Tahoe, Suburban, their GMC/Caddy brothers, Sequoia, QX, GL class all ride well enough that if you spend 12 hours in them, you don't feel beat up at the end of your drive. Ford needs to improve their ride.
Ford I believe is class leading in power so that doesn't even need to be brought up. It's how they develop that power and the longevity a boosted engine really has.
The interiors are purely preference. Some people rave about Sync and my touch. Others hate it. I think Chevy needs to improve too. MB GLs and Infinity QX handily beat Chevy and Ford. But that's a Navigator/Escalade comparo.
The mileage is fine. If you buy a full size SUV and your primary concern is fuel economy, why are you buying a modern land barge? This is probably why I'd make a terrible sales person. Fuel economy should be an after the fact bragging right in full size BOF SUVs.
The Ford's are fine. But the reason they won't pass the Tahoe is because Ford makes a product and sticks with it far too long. There have only been 4 changes to Mustang in the last 45 years. 4 to F-150 in 40 years. I could go on but you get my point. They are rarely class leading in anything because they don't innovate. Thanks for the moving assembly line. Every other time Ford tries to innovate, its usually a fail. Ecoboost is a sucess for now. But to beat your competition, you have to do everything it does better. For Tahoe, that's 250,000 miles of comfortable, relatively trouble free driving with enough features to keep a driver loving their car a little more every day. The ink isn't dry on the first sold 2018 Expeditions so it's hard to say if they will be preferred over Tahoe, but I doubt it. I think they aimed to be relevant again. There is nothing new or exciting about this new version. You may as well call it a new model instead of a new generation. Lincoln, you could likewise look at as a new upstart car company because they are doing everything completely different as evident in the Navigator and Contentential.
Maybe you prefer the Expedition. It looks nice. But then again, so does Tahoe, QX, Sequoia... It handles well thanks to a modern setup. So does Tahoe, QX... does it ride well? I don't know. Haven't driven one. Bit if Ford's past SUVs are in this new Expedition, then no. Did they fix the glitchy Sync system? Don't know. We'll find out in about a year.
What do they need to do to beat the Tahoe? It doesn't matter at the moment. They need to first make a vehicle that is worth a damn in its own segment. And on that point, so does the Nissan Armada. Then they can start fine tuning it to beat Tahoe.

Ok so...For the 2018 Expediton to be better than the tahoe in a meaningful way, they need to make sure the 'ride' is good and make sure the interface isnt glitchy. (since they clearly have more power, more torque, better gas mileage, greater towing capacity and higher quality interiors).

I guess we'll have to see if their ride is any better than the bouncy as shit MRC equipped vehicles and the rock hard seats the GM's have today. I'm guessing 'yes', especially with 30 way adjustable seats but I have yet to drive one...Dealer wont have one until later this month.

 

[cardude2000]

4 to F-150 in 40 years.

Doesnt the F series outsell all other trucks by a large order of magnitude?

 

[15YUKON]

Ford doesn’t innovate? Have to disagree There, also sticking to a product probably means people like IT and it’s a success. The sequoia and armada aren’t even worth talking about they are so bad. Same with that ugly bubble infinity that thing is Maximum Ugly. You could give me a 2003 Expedition or Tahoe with 200,000 miles and I’d drive that before the infinity I sh*t you not. The only two that are truly in the suv game are Ford and GM. The foreign conpetition can’t even compete IMO.

 

[cardude2000]

Ford doesn’t innovate? Have to disagree There, also sticking to a product probably means people like IT and it’s a success. The sequoia and armada aren’t even worth talking about they are so bad. Same with that ugly bubble infinity that thing is Maximum Ugly. The only two that are truly in the suv game are Ford and GM.

Well to be fair, after inventing the segment (specifically with the navigator) Ford really sat on the expedition for a long time. But I couldn’t care less if Ford has the best SUV for the next decade, I’m just wondering if they’re going to have the best one next couple of years which is when I’ll probably be interested in upgrading.

 

[Mattsred03]

Ok so...For the 2018 Expediton to be better than the tahoe in a meaningful way, they need to make sure the 'ride' is good.

That shouldn't be an issue IMO as the current tahoe is shitshow from a ride comfort standpoint (between the awful MRC and the rock hard seats).

I agree on those seats. I miss the sofa seats they used to put in them. But I think they ride nice and handle road imperfections well as long as you skip the 22 inch wheels. It's hard to make anything ride nice with gigantic wheels. There's just not enough rubber between the road and the rim. But it's not just the ride. Why you got hung up on the ride, I don't know, but the Ford and Nissan both needed to not feel like a chuck wagon driving down a freshly paved road. Maybe this new version fixed that. It's the glitchy Sync system is another need for improvement. It's the cheap feeling interiors of 2017 they were using which would have been fine if this was 1995 is another. It was a frame that was born in 1996. They have to do just about everything better than anything 2017 or older. The 2018's just came out. I'm sure they are an improvement of old, I'm sure they are just fine, but with the new one, I don't think Ford went above and beyond the Tahoe. That article was on a top trim Ford on a course Ford picked vs what sounds like in that article a middle of the road LT Suburban. And that was one article. Maybe the 18 addressed all of the previous models short comings. Maybe it didn't. Like I said, I haven't driven one. But I guess we'll all find out the end of next year just what the people thought of the new Expedition. Im sure sales will be up, but I'm willing to bet it still won't beat Tahoe.

 

[cardude2000]

I agree on those seats. I miss the sofa seats they used to put in them. But I think they ride nice and handle road imperfections well as long as you skip the 22 inch wheels. It's hard to make anything ride nice with gigantic wheels. There's just not enough rubber between the road and the rim. But it's not just the ride. Why you got hung up on the ride, I don't know, but the Ford and Nissan both needed to not feel like a chuck wagon driving down a freshly paved road. Maybe this new version fixed that. It's the glitchy Sync system is another need for improvement. It's the cheap feeling interiors of 2017 they were using which would have been fine if this was 1995 is another. It was a frame that was born in 1996. They have to do just about everything better than anything 2017 or older. The 2018's just came out. I'm sure they are an improvement of old, I'm sure they are just fine, but with the new one, I don't think Ford went above and beyond the Tahoe. That article was on a top trim Ford on a course Ford picked vs what sounds like in that article a middle of the road LT Suburban. And that was one article. Maybe the 18 addressed all of the previous models short comings. Maybe it didn't. Like I said, I haven't driven one. But I guess we'll all find out the end of next year just what the people thought of the new Expedition. Im sure sales will be up, but I'm willing to bet it still won't beat Tahoe.

I picked up on ride because it was the only quantifiable thing that you brought up other than the glitchy interface.

Everything else, including Power, trailering capabilities, interior quality etc. are all materially better on the new Ford.

All of the reviews I’ve read so far, put it above and beyond the Tahoe.

As you said, it all remains to be seen. As a big fan of all things automotive, I hope Ford knocks this one out of the park and really brings GM to its knees. Nothing is better for Car lovers than super aggressive competitors in the marketplace.



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