Just saw this black bear video versus stock quarter mile

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Vegasmarc21

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First of all this video states that there's a .495 second quarter mile difference versus stock. I'm not trying to bash on Blackbear, but the real difference in quarter mile time since the stock had .305 reaction time difference is .131 seconds in a quarter mile...... That's not very good. I almost was considering the black bear tune but after this video is kind of discouraging can anyone explain. I see a lot of happy customers of blackbear, and I was assuming that a Blackbear tuned engine could be much faster than a stock detuned engine that supposed to be a gas saver. Can somebody explain what was going on with this video. Again not trying to start an argument just wondering... Here's a link to the video.
 

cheyenne383

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A tune is what it is, maximizing the combination of parts for their intended purpose.

Taking a stock vehicle and making the throttle response better, crisper shifts, getting rid of some torque management, and a bit of bump in performance is a win in my book. Taking a giant SUV and making it a rocket ship with some computer tweaks isn't really a realistic expectation...

Tuning a drag car is squeezing the last bit of power out of it at the right time, often times at the expense of expenseive parts... That's not what they're in the business of doing.

I've had supercharged and high powered toys, and have spent tons of money and time getting everything I can out of them. Now that I have kids and responsibilities a late model vehicle with an intake kit, decent exhaust, and a tune to make it smooth and get rid of some nanny features is all I really need.

Back to lurking now...:uhoh2:
 

iamdub

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Reaction time has nothing to do with the quarter mile elapsed time.

RT is just the time from when the lights go green to when the tires break the beam at the start. The ET is the time from when those beams are broken to when the beams at the 1/4 mile mark are broken. A 10-second car can sit for 5 minutes after the lights go green if they wanted to, then launch and make a 10-second pass. Their RT would be 5 minutes but their ET would still be 10 seconds, not 5 minutes and 10 seconds.

It's common on test-and-tune events for racers to sit for a few seconds after the green lights when they're focusing more on dialing-in their launch procedure than their reaction.
 

SidewaystheSeven

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The BlackBear tune (or just about any tune I've experienced in these trucks) gives a measurable gain in drivability. It doesn't flip the race car switch.

We're talking about a ~.5s gain in ET for a couple hundred bucks on 89 octane with everything else being the same. I consider that to be impressive. If we were talking about a vehicle with FI, I'd probably agree with you, but this is a NA 5000#+ truck.

You may need to adjust your expectations a bit, IMO.
 

randeez

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/\ 5880# on the scale with me in it lol
as mentioned reaction time has nothing to do with elapsed time.
I picked up about .4 also in the 1/4 with just tune both on 93 oct (drop in filter and MIT for both runs - prob does nothing but just noting)
iirc 15.3 was best with no tune, worst was maybe a 15.5 out of 10 or so runs pretty consistent
after tune best run was a 14.9, hand full of 15.0s but also consistent

running E85 would probably yield an even better time with tune, without tune 93 felt much stronger but no runs between fuels

couldnt crack 2.3 60' with stock converter for either tune/no tune, "general rule" every .1 you pick up in the 60 is worth .2 at the end as far as ET
 
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Vegasmarc21

Vegasmarc21

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All I'm saying is that video, whoever made it, was bragging about how much of a difference was made in quarter mile speeds. I completely agree that a tune is all it is, it's not a supercharger, its more of drivability and things like better shifting and throttle response etc....and some hp gains if any....but as I was saying taking the reaction times and calculating as if both stock and bb tune took off at the same time (in other words, if they both had a reaction time of .000, the difference is only one131 secs with a bb tune.. again I know a tune is more than just quarter mile speeds... But that's what the video was showing and that's what a lot of people that have a BB team on let's say YouTube are saying you should get a bbtune that looks weak compared to my BB tune...and they are referencing and saying it to a guy that is doing a video at WOT.... Again I was just saying in my personal thoughts of what a lot of reviews I see about BB Tune, I thought it would be more than a .131 second difference in a quarter mile. (The feeling of a stock tune versus a bbtune it's just a feeling of crisper acceleration but in reality over a quarter mile time it's only .131 secs better than stock. Numbers don't lie folks. That's all folks nothing else.
 
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HiHoeSilver

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All I'm saying is that video, whoever made it, was bragging about how much of a difference was made in quarter mile speeds. I completely agree that a tune is all it is, it's not a supercharger, its more of drivability and things like better shifting and throttle response etc....and some hp gains if any....but as I was saying taking the reaction times and calculating as if both stock and bb tune took off at the same time (in other words, if they both had a reaction time of .000, the difference is only one131 secs with a bb tune.. again I know a tune is more than just quarter mile speeds... But that's what the video was showing and that's what a lot of people that have a BB team on let's say YouTube are saying you should get a bbtune that looks weak compared to my BB tune...and they are referencing and saying it to a guy that is doing a video at WOT.... Again I was just saying in my personal thoughts of what a lot of reviews I see about BB Tune, I thought it would be more than a .131 second difference in a quarter mile. (The feeling of a stock tune versus a bbtune it's just a feeling of crisper acceleration but in reality over a quarter mile time it's only .131 secs better than stock. Numbers don't lie folks. That's all folks nothing else.

This is fair, but as stated earlier, your logic on comparing the times is flawed. The RT is a separate interval than the ET. The truck is 0.5 faster with the tune, regardless of any difference in RT.
 

iamdub

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All I'm saying is that video, whoever made it, was bragging about how much of a difference was made in quarter mile speeds.

Actually, in your original post, you were knocking the 1/4 mile elapsed time and said nothing about the speed. Not that this changes anything.


...but as I was saying taking the reaction times and calculating as if both stock and bb tune took off at the same time (in other words, if they both had a reaction time of .000, the difference is only one131 secs with a bb tune.

You're not getting it- the reaction time has nothing to do the elapsed time. Think about it this way: You and a friend have identical cars- weight, power, etc. is all perfectly identical. You both are going to drive your respective vehicles to a neighbor's mailbox that is precisely one quarter of a mile away from your mailbox and you want to time how long it takes to get there. The clock starts as soon as you pass your mailbox and you are both parked in the street, side-by-side, just before the mailbox. Your friend floors the pedal in his car and his stopwatch begins ticking as soon as he passes your mailbox. He gets to the neighbor's mailbox and his stopwatch shows that it took exactly 20 seconds to get there. Now, you take 2 minutes to finish your drink, then you floor the pedal in your car. You reach your buddy at the neighbor's mailbox and your stopwatch shows exactly 20 seconds, yet, you are 2 minutes behind him. Does this mean your car is slower because you got there 2 minutes and 20 seconds behind him? No. You just had a 2-minute slower reaction time. But the time that you were actually racing from your mailbox to the neighbor's was 20 seconds- exactly the same as his.

Now, picture the same scenario, only your car now has a supercharger. Your friend's car is still as it was. He gets to the mailbox in 20 seconds again. You take 2 minutes again, take off, and get there in 15 seconds this time. Does this mean you are still slower because you arrived 2 minutes and 15 seconds behind him? No. Your reaction time was still 2 minutes. But the time that you were actually racing from your mailbox to the neighbor's was 15 seconds- 5 seconds faster than your friend's car. Your car is 5 seconds faster over a quarter mile distance than your friend's car. When you started your race versus when your friend started his makes no difference.

Look at it as there being two timers in a race. The light goes green and a timer starts from then until the car trips the beam at the start. This calculates the RT. There's a second timer that starts simultaneously when that first timer ends and it is stopped when the car trips the beam at the 1/4 mile mark, giving the 1/4 mile ET. The timer that tells how fast the car is is the ET timer. The RT timer just shows how long it took for the driver to respond to the light turning green.


...again I know a tune is more than just quarter mile speeds... But that's what the video was showing and that's what a lot of people that have a BB team on let's say YouTube are saying you should get a bbtune that looks weak compared to my BB tune...and they are referencing and saying it to a guy that is doing a video at WOT.... Again I was just saying in my personal thoughts of what a lot of reviews I see about BB Tune, I thought it would be more than a .131 second difference in a quarter mile. (The feeling of a stock tune versus a bbtune it's just a feeling of crisper acceleration but in reality over a quarter mile time it's only .131 secs better than stock. Numbers don't lie folks. That's all folks nothing else.

No, numbers don't lie. But your misunderstanding of them doesn't tell you truth, either. The video really means nothing in this comparison unless it captures all that happened in both runs- if the driver was at WOT when the truck tripped the beams, if the tires didn't grip as well on one run versus the other, if the wind changed directions from one run versus the other, etc.

In reference to that video, if that guy stomped the pedal to WOT during both races (regardless if he stomped it immediately after the green light or waited 2 minutes then stomping it), then the results are valid. If the light went green and he gently rolled onto the throttle the first 10 feet or so of the untuned race, then this would skew and invalidate the results. There are always small variables (a head- or tailwind in one race but not the other, a warmer engine having it's timing retarded,etc.) that will happen. This is why it's necessary to make a few runs pre-mod and a few runs post-mod to get an average. The more consistent the vehicle and driver are, the more accurate the before and after comparison results will be.


NOW, to be technically accurate, a tune can alter the RT: Say this driver can stomp the pedal precisely on the millisecond that the light goes green every time without fail. The truck, untuned, may not respond as quickly due to the throttle being opened more slowly because it has an electronic, computer-controlled throttle. The throttle response tables can be tuned to open the throttle more and/or more quickly when it receives a signal from the pedal that it has been floored and commanding 100% throttle. Yes, there are many other things that can be tuned to reduce the response time, such as the injector and ignition timings, but let's keep it simple here. This would make the truck jump milliseconds sooner when the pedal is stomped, resulting in the start beam being tripped sooner.
 
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Vegasmarc21

Vegasmarc21

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This is fair, but as stated earlier, your logic on comparing the times is flawed. The RT is a separate interval than the ET. The truck is 0.5 faster with the tune, regardless of any difference in RT.
So if my reaction time is .000 seconds and I get a 1/4 mile time of 17.00 on a stock tune and then I get a reaction time of 1.000 second on a BB Tune and 1/4 mile time is on BB Tune is 17.869 do you consider the stock tune to be .869 seconds faster? If you do then...lol
 

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