4T65-E Transmission Clunk, B Platform Lucerne (impala)

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Matthew Jeschke

Matthew Jeschke

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good call on the wrecked model, you just have to ensure its the same. As far as building it, YouTube has great videos by trannyshops on the building of this tranny. Do a search. As far as a guide, Alldata is usually very good as the info is there and not too costly. Strangely GM does not include in the official Ship manual the trans rebuild sections. Only the diagnostics. You would need to if you want the Official GM manual, get what is known as a TURM, or Transmission Unit Repair Manual, it contains all the Trannys that GM produced. The Alldata will have that material as well. This wouild include the torque specs.

I'm watching some videos here.. Curious there are different gear configurations for the 4T65E. How do I ensure I have a similarly configured transmission when I buy one from the junk yard? Do you know how to read the specs... or do I simply go off model and options for car I pull tranny from?
 

UrbanSuburban

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This is where things get tricky, its one of the reasons that tranny shops would rather build your old one than go to the headache of drilling down.
Ok, so you know in the glovebox or on the sparetire cover in the trunk will be the RPO code sticker. This will allow you to get what RPO code your trans is. On the trans itself, on a boss on the side will be the rest of the info, a bunch of numbers and letters that will tell you what shift etc the trans was made. You will need an RPO code reader and the alldata trans section to decipher it. Once you do that then you are good to go. As far as what gear ratio then the vehicle it came from should give that info, the wrecker should be able to tell you as you are going to have to tell them what vehicle this will be going into. You may be finding that you are going to need special tools, you really don't , the only one you will need is a very long needle nosed plier to remove the lockrings deep into the tranny. You will also need Vaseline to hold your checkballs in place. There is a product called transgel and its blue to separate it from the red but Vaseline will do fine. Hope this helps
 

CountryBoy19

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Awesome :) Ideally I'd like to pickup a 4t65e from junk yard. I'd rebuild it as I drive the Buick (it still runs just I'm afraid clutches are towards end of life). I am with you on cleanliness. I may even make a corner with plastic curtain to keep cleaner yet. My biggest concern is though, I don't have a rebuild guide with the torque specs and all that. Do they make a 4t65e rebuild guide? I think with a book I should be fine.
Google atsg 4t65e service manual pdf.... you can buy one to be proper but there are free downloads floating around. .. I rebuilt my 4t65e in the car... you can get everything except the torque converter and differential by lowering the cradle and pulling driver wheel/hub/strut...
 
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Matthew Jeschke

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Google atsg 4t65e service manual pdf.... you can buy one to be proper but there are free downloads floating around. .. I rebuilt my 4t65e in the car... you can get everything except the torque converter and differential by lowering the cradle and pulling driver wheel/hub/strut...

You da man. I have just been babying my tranny a LOT... If it persists I will drop the service pan and get the bits I can do under there... If that doesn't work, I'm def going to try a rebuild w/o dropping it like you said... Do you have lift? How did you get under there?


I hope it keeps running but I'm thinking this isn't a 300,000 mile car or transmission at least lol I'm hoping I can get 200k... My truck has 225k and is running strong.
 

CountryBoy19

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You da man. I have just been babying my tranny a LOT... If it persists I will drop the service pan and get the bits I can do under there... If that doesn't work, I'm def going to try a rebuild w/o dropping it like you said... Do you have lift? How did you get under there?


I hope it keeps running but I'm thinking this isn't a 300,000 mile car or transmission at least lol I'm hoping I can get 200k... My truck has 225k and is running strong.
I put my car up on blocks. I have some 10x12x14 wood blocks that I set up on the 14" dimension, with a 4x6 about 4 feet long laying across them. That was all placed on the main structural beams built into the unibody just behind the engine-cradle. This puts the front end about 16" higher than normal. The only thing you have to work underneath to perform is the pan/filter drop and possibly add a couple upgrade parts in the pan (IIRC there are 2 accumulators in the pan if you were to add shift-kits to them). The rest of the work will be done from the driver-side wheel well. Unlike a longitudinal transmission, the transverse transmissions have the valve-body and all the goods inside the end-cover which comes off the driver-side of the transmission. You pop the driver wheel assembly out including the strut, lower the cradle down to get more clearance, loosen all the bolts on the end-cover, then play a jenga game to get it out. You'll be looking at the valve-body. Removing the valve body will get you access to the clutches.

Note: Do LOTS of research on common problems with these and what to look for. The reason I did mine was my 4th clutch hub shaft stripped the splines (common problem pre-03). I didn't have any other options so I was forced to drive it to work for the next 4 days like that. Amazingly, the day before I stopped driving it started experiencing problems associate with the worn input clutch piston. I had no idea it was a problem so I had no idea to look at or inspect the piston for wear. Thankfully that problem arose and I got a reman input piston 2-day shipped so I could complete the in-car rebuild that weekend. See here for what I'm talking about, I suggest you look through a lot of his pages of common problems. He's a 4T65E guru, he answers the phone, and his parts are GTG if you choose to buy from him. http://tripleedgeperformance.com/No-Forward-Cold.html

Whatever you do, take your time and be very, very thorough. I thought I was thorough but I was rushed, it was my only wheels and I did it over a weekend in my driveway. Sunday night it was getting dark on my as I finished up. I put the last few parts in the tranny by head-lamp. I forgot to put the chain splash deflector thing in. I set in on top of my blocks wrapped in a rag so I wouldn't forget it; it was RIGHT there. But by the time I got to that it was dark and that was out of view because my headlamp was shining at the transmission, not the block it was sitting on. So I got to pull the end-cover again to put that in... got it all buttoned up and took it for a test-drive at midnight... Limp mode.... son-of-a-*****... I was pissed... but I had to have it done so I could go to work in the morning. It was throwing a solenoid circuit failure code... I drop the cradle and check all the solenoid connectors... apparently I didn't get one of the clicked all the way on... simple problem, 5 hrs to fix it. By the time I got it all back together it was time to leave for work and I hadn't slept yet... I called in sick. Thinking back, I should have just stopped when it got dark because I was starting to get rushed and frustrated, and that's NO time to be working on something so critical. Call me a retard, amateur, whatever, I know I made stupid mistakes, but I didn't plan to. I'm usually very thorough when it comes to things like that but lack of sleep, frustration, and a bit of anxiety about getting the job done and it's easy to make silly mistakes like that. Just trying to save somebody else from repeating mine.

ETA, one more VERY VERY IMPORTANT thing. DO NOT torque the bottom 4 end-cover bolts to the spec listed in the service manuals. It's a known weak point, google it. 99% of people that are going to have problems have the cover crack immediately so they know there is a problem. I was the unlucky 1%. I rebuilt it, drove around a couple thousand miles, then set out on a cross-country road trip (travel for work). I drove all the way from Indiana to New York, drove around New York for a week, then got 80% of the way back to Indiana (very lucky I made it that far) and transmission started slipping (I had put at least 4k miles on it since rebuild at this point). I pulled off at the next exit and tranny fluid is running out the cover in a steady stream. I jack it up, pull the wheel, crawl under and I can see the crack right around the bolt hole. It was after that happened that I found out it's "common knowledge" that you don't torque those bolts to the spec listed in the manual. F*** Me... $40 for an end-cover on ebay, already pulled and cleaned, it's just the 5 hrs labor to jack it up, lower the cradle and swap the covers out.

This was all a few years ago. IIRC it was around 228k miles when I did that and I just rolled over 250k miles last week.


Small tid-bit, if you aren't familiar with GM transmission lingo. The first number is the number of speeds (4), the letter is transverse (front-wheel drive) vs longitudinal (rear-wheel drive), the next 2-digits is the torque rating (number value is arbitrary I believe), and an E at the end indicates electronic controls. IE, 4T65E is 4-speed, transverse, 65 torque rating, electronic controls. The thing that I'm not sure of is if torque ratings can be compared between T & L transmissions. IE, your car with a 4T65E has less torque and power than a Yukon with a 4L60E... is that why the 4L60E's have issues?
 
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CountryBoy19

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I should also note there may be a few specialty tools you'll need. Some you can get by without, but some are a must. IMHO, the special expanders & squeezers for the Teflon sealing rings are a must but you may have to modify them to get to them work for the oil-pump shaft when doing an in-car repair/rebuild. I made some myself (I have a machine-shop at home), I'll see if I can find them. If so, I can send them to you; it may save you a little coin.
 
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Matthew Jeschke

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I should also note there may be a few specialty tools you'll need. Some you can get by without, but some are a must. IMHO, the special expanders & squeezers for the Teflon sealing rings are a must but you may have to modify them to get to them work for the oil-pump shaft when doing an in-car repair/rebuild. I made some myself (I have a machine-shop at home), I'll see if I can find them. If so, I can send them to you; it may save you a little coin.
You are awesome. My tranny seems to be going good right now. Thank god but my guess the writing is in the wall. It will need rebuilt in the next couple years. I have been watching rebuild videos and saw the service cover could be accessed from driver side. Never thought of doing that there :|

Prob my plan of attack would be to replace / rebuild everything under the service pan first, next time i change tranny fluid.

I had thought for aome reason there is a clutch pack inside the tranny you cannot get to without taking the tranny out?

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Matthew Jeschke

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Ug... It's starting to shift like crap again. I think it's going to go much sooner than I'd wished. I'm going to order the transgo kit, all the soliniods and do the work under the service pan first.

Curious I've been searching for the soliniods however, it's tricky as I cannot figure out which ones it takes. It seems there multiple versions? Do they have to go off my car VIN number?
 

sonic_the_hedgeh

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Ug... It's starting to shift like crap again. I think it's going to go much sooner than I'd wished. I'm going to order the transgo kit, all the soliniods and do the work under the service pan first.

Curious I've been searching for the soliniods however, it's tricky as I cannot figure out which ones it takes. It seems there multiple versions? Do they have to go off my car VIN number?
There is a kit on Amazon. It services 4L60E as well as the 4L65E which I have in my 04 denali. Mine is slipping I have to let off the gas for it to shift.

I checked and saw on a forum quite a few people recommend it.

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