Future 2020/21 Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban

There was an attempt at a valid topic.

Honor the attempt and ease up on the salt.

cardude2000 said:

Jeep, Jaguar, Land Rover, BMW and Mercedes all offer turbo diesels in their suv lineup.

The American manufacturers, for whatever reason are laggards for sure. But I believe they sell diesel variants in Europe and chevy is adding diesel options to their mid level suv lineup in 2018 I think.

Oh and something something evil govt.

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They are laggards HERE. You can't find a gasoline car anywhere over in Europe. Very rare for daily drivers. I still believe its the stigmata the 70's and 80's diesels had - that rickety rackety diesel of old, smog pouring out the tailpipe, and a lack of stations providing diesel fuel.

The Opels (GM) Fords, etc are all diesel in Europe. 1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, and 2.0 liter diesels are the most common sizes found in pretty much every car from every manufacturer - Fiat, Opel , Ford, Peugeot, Citroen, Alfa, etc etc. They all get awesome mileage. And all the cars are a better variant of what they sell here. I rented a Fiat Croma (small wagon) a few years back. It was a 1.8l Turbo. Outside of the lack of neck breaking torque from a dead stop this thing would give my TA a run for its money. On the Autostrada in Italy I was able to set the cruise control to 225km/hr (that's about 140mph) and the car was steady as she goes and still provided me with almost the equivalent of 18mpg. I can just about get 20mpg in my Burb with the cruise set at 80mph.

A few trips ago we had a Fiat 500 XL which was a 7 passenger variant of the 500L. When we came back we went with my mother to test drive the 500L here (500XL not sold in the US.) The thing they sell here is a turd. An underpowered 4 banger, no manual transmission option, no turbo, and the suspension from a Huffy bicycle compared to the Euro flavored one. Its night and day difference...not to mention way better safety features they have in Europe.

Isn’t gasoline or ‘petrol’ very expensive in Europe compared to here as well? Turbo diesels would be nice (not a 2 liter). But a decent size diesel motor would push these good. The excursion with the diesel 6.0 did way better on fuel economy than the V10. I think it’s starting, Ford uses a 3.2 liter diesel in their vans and is bringing it to F150. Ram uses their eco diesel in the half ton.

fozzi58 said:

They are laggards HERE. You can't find a gasoline car anywhere over in Europe. Very rare for daily drivers. I still believe its the stigmata the 70's and 80's diesels had - that rickety rackety diesel of old, smog pouring out the tailpipe, and a lack of stations providing diesel fuel.

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The VW situation 2 years ago probably didn't help either.

It's too bad; there are some excellent choices. BMW has a diesel version of the X5 that has virtually equivalent 0-60 times as their [excellent] turbo-6, faster 0-30 times, and better fuel economy. If I were in the market for an X5 I might have bought one. And when I was considering Porsche Cayennes, a whole swath of people on those boards wanted me to be sure and try the diesel.

cardude2000 said:

Any country that builds cars in any meaningful way has already agreed that clean air is a basic human right

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Any rights that government grants, government can take away. In realville, nobody has a basic human right to clean air. It's defined by government and not the people because the statists believe that you are too dumb to manage your own affairs and only the wizards of smart in a far away place have the brains to make your life better serve the state. That's tyranny.

cardude2000 said:

In some countries over 30% of cars sold are equipped with hybrid/EV technologies.

...But I have no doubt that in 20 years virtually all vehicles will have some sort of hybrid engine technology baked into it and nobody will bat an eye.

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Here again, these electric hybrids are either subsidized by government or mandated or the competition outlawed. These electric ones are junk once their batteries need replacing, at least the earlier generations from not long ago were. Nobody is going to buy an old Prius and drop $5k on new batteries, not the kind of folks that would buy them anyways. As for innovation, it's only happening because of government, they're picking the winners and losers and do-gooders feel all warm and fuzzy with regards to little hybrids and electric cars; it's part of their religion.

I'm all for hybrid plants, the diesel electric plants first found in locomotives and then used at sea aboard our destroyer escorts and fleet submarines are super cool. Driving a gas turbine generator powered truck or diesel electric truck would be cool. The power plants turn at low preset speeds and power electric motors at each axle or wheel. Lots of torque and tractive effort but such is more expensive than geared axles and probably slower too. Maintenance costs would rise as well.

WillCO said:

The VW situation 2 years ago probably didn't help either.

It's too bad there are some excellent choices. BMW has a diesel version of the X5 that has virtually equivalent 0-60 times as their [excellent] turbo-6, faster 0-30 times, and better fuel economy. If I were in the market for an X5 I might have bought one.

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I know a few people that own VWs and that didn't bother them at all; one went out and bought another before they ruined the programming with a recall.

If America didn't have those foolish regulations we'd get all those cool diesels here again. My father owned an Isuzu I-Mark and he was getting over sixty miles per gallon until a drunk totalled the car. Then he bought an Oldsmobile diesel, the one everyone hates, and that was a great car for our family! It got 35 mpg on the highway and was stout enough to deliver pizzas in it and bracket race at the drags. It was the most consistent car I ever raced, slowest too!

Diesel is definitely getting better. But I don't like the fact that diesel, by its very nature, produces actual particulates and unless they are filtered properly, its spews out into the air and even affects passengers. Most modern diesels have good filters that capture most of the particulates, but after the VW scandal and their lying about their diesel engines, I'm more skeptical.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3973853/

https://www.osha.gov/dts/hazardalerts/diesel_exhaust_hazard_alert.html

swathdiver said:

Any rights that government grants, government can take away. In realville, nobody has a basic human right to clean air. It's defined by government and not the people because the statists believe that you are too dumb to manage your own affairs and only the wizards of smart in a far away place have the brains to make your life better serve the state. That's tyranny.




Here again, these electric hybrids are either subsidized by government or mandated or the competition outlawed. These electric ones are junk once their batteries need replacing, at least the earlier generations from not long ago were. Nobody is going to buy an old Prius and drop $5k on new batteries, not the kind of folks that would buy them anyways. As for innovation, it's only happening because of government, they're picking the winners and losers and do-gooders feel all warm and fuzzy with regards to little hybrids and electric cars; it's part of their religion.

I'm all for hybrid plants, the diesel electric plants first found in locomotives and then used at sea aboard our destroyer escorts and fleet submarines are super cool. Driving a gas turbine generator powered truck or diesel electric truck would be cool. The power plants turn at low preset speeds and power electric motors at each axle or wheel. Lots of torque and tractive effort but such is more expensive than geared axles and probably slower too. Maintenance costs would rise as well.

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So when a majority of people vote in politicians that run on a platform that includes cleaning up the air...that’s tyranny. Lol.

Again, I don’t know why so many people here hate the constitution and the bill of rights. Your right to swing your arms ends when it hits my face. Your right to drive a heavily polluting truck ends when it impacts others health.

This is settled law and no amount of metal gymnastics or ‘ah hell no this is ‘Murica!’ changes that.

As for subsidies, I agree have the govt end all subsidies. That includes farm, healthcare, technology and OMG subsidies (along with eliminating special tax treatment, funky incorporation/sheltering laws that the OMG industry has enjoyed for so long.)

We at least agree on that.

I do fully expect a turbo 6 in the next generation.

I live at 6400 feet and have driven a few Ford EcoBoost engines that don't lose power at altitude the way that naturally aspirated engines do. Frankly, I see some upside in GM going that direction.

Interior in the current generation is a profound leap forward from previous, IMO. More could be done. Look at what Porsche has done with the interior of the 2018 Cayenne, including the gorgeous huge MMI screen. I get that a Cayenne is a different vehicle at a different price point for a different audience, but to my eyes it is the best interior design execution I have seen without being deliberately bling-y (cough, Mercedes...) and I love it.

cardude2000 said:

So when a majority of people vote in politicians that run on a platform that includes cleaning up the air...that’s tyranny. Lol.

Again, I don’t know why so many people here hate the constitution and the bill of rights. Your right to swing your arms ends when it hits my face. Your right to drive a heavily polluting truck ends when it impacts others health.

This is settled law and no amount of metal gymnastics or ‘ah hell no this is ‘Murica!’ changes that.

As for subsidies, I agree have the govt end all subsidies. That includes farm, healthcare, technology and OMG subsidies (along with eliminating special tax treatment, funky incorporation/sheltering laws that the OMG industry has enjoyed for so long.)

We at least agree on that.

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Also, it’s a good business decision to invest in the future and technology. It can pay off huge dividends, especially now that cars are mostly software and computers.

GM’s stock (which obviously GM owners care about) just went up because analysts described GM as a huge investor in AV (autonomous vehicle) technology, and also EV (electric vehicles).

The market has spoken on this one. Could you imagine what would happen to the stock if GM instead announced that it wants to just keep building big gas guzzling engines the way it had been for the last century?

Ultimately GM is a business, and they will go to where the market takes them.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/gm...11190997?mod=yahoobarrons&ru=yahoo&yptr=yahoo


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