Overheating after New Intake gaskets..?

[BattelWagün]

Hey everyone,

Ive spent the last week and a half laboriously and meticulously replacing my intake gaskets. I replaced them with a nice fel-pro set. After that i changed the oil after washing the valley with a quart or two to get all the debris out, etc. Well now I have her all buttoned up, so I began to flush the radiator. I thought I had it full of water (not coolant) and buttoned it up and started her, started right up (I have a feeling my timing might be a hair off). It idled for about ten minutes before overheating, so i tried to see if any air bubbles are in the system, I squeeze all the hoses etc. and nothing. Add a little more water and it still overheats, so now i decided to take the thermostat out. Did that, reflushed, and it got a hair past running temp after about 10 min of idling and 15 min of driving, I stopped there because it shouldnt get anywhere near that hot without a thermostat, right? Anywho, I unplugged the rad drain and put the hose in the top on full blast and started it, never even warmed up after 20 min!!! :emotions122:

Im lost! any help?

*also as a side note*- i dont have my fan shrouds on, i didnt think it would affect anything. no CEL or codes either

[Dpsthomas]

Did you check the water pump?

[AtomicHoe094]

Ive heard of people doing these gaskets before and having the same problem as you.. Sounds like you put the gaskets upside down or flipped or something causing to block the water passages?

[BattelWagün]

The water pump seems okay, or there is nothing leaking from it at least. As far as the gaskets go, the are reversible, there isn't a specific gasket for either side and they cant be flipped upside down because the little alignment lugs on them wouldn't work... I'm thinking an air pocket in the cooling system? I'm pretty sure its all good though...

[AtomicHoe094]

what temp is considered "overheating"? must be one hell of an air pocket. lol

[BattelWagün]

Well with the thermostat, all the way to the red, and without it, about 240 ish if I let it run that long...

[AtomicHoe094]

:uhoh2:

[BattelWagün]

yeah.... I am TOTALLY lost here, I mean i know quite a bit about these things, but i just cant undertsand how a completely free flowing system would overheat like that, even with water.... anyone else have any ideas?

...maybe ill tighten the intake bolts a little more...

[SunlitComet]

side note- :Rant:PUT THE SHROUDS BACK ON and try again.
Your air probably sucking air from the sides and front of fan and not physically forcing any thru the radiator.

Could not see from your gasket set anything that could go wrong from incorrect placement.

Didi you have your heater on to bleed air out of everywhere? And when it was hot did you have a stiff upper hose?

[AtomicHoe094]

i wouldnt see the shroud having too much effect, shit people can use one single electric fan without shrouds and be fine :/

[BattelWagün]

side note- :Rant:PUT THE SHROUDS BACK ON and try again.
Your air probably sucking air from the sides and front of fan and not physically forcing any thru the radiator.

Could not see from your gasket set anything that could go wrong from incorrect placement.

Didi you have your heater on to bleed air out of everywhere? And when it was hot did you have a stiff upper hose?
Alright man I'll put em on dont hurt me dont hurt me!:Stupid Me: haha

and yeah heater was on, I had the heat all the way up and the fan on low (haynes said fan on low so im trusting them...)

and yes the upper hose felt pressurized and was quite hot, i never shecked the lower though. I'm seriously considering taking it to a steep hill and parking it radiator up and seeing what happens...

[ezdaar]

Dude, you flipped your gaskets and blocked the crossover pasage.

I did the same thing once... Had tomany "man its hot grab me a beer" breaks during the install.

Sucks to hear, TRUST ME I know! but pop that mani back off and flip those gaskets, then laugh.

Exact same symptoms I had fire truck up, start cruisin, 10 min and your temp is redline...
No matter what you go... overheat...
flip those gaskets, bud...

[BattelWagün]

you gott be porkin me dude... :eek:

F*CK!!

EDIT: Wait, the crossovers are at the front and rear of the engine right? Because Those aren't blocked, I bought another set and compared it to my stock set, and all 4 gaskets are EXACTLY the same....

[SunlitComet]

fan on low is fine. The ideal is to make sure the water valve is open but not have to heat up you and your cab on a realy hot valve. When I first got my tahoe I always heard water pouring into the heater core like it had air in there some pouring water into a cup. I went away after I flushed out my system and refilled it in a specific way. I actually had the t-stat housing removed and filled the radiator till I was less than 1/4 below mounting face then put in t-stat and housing. after which I filled it more bleeding out as much of the in the top hose as I could. even flexed the hose to help the air ride itself out because of high section of hose. I did this because our t-stat were double valves with no bleed holes and I wantto to make sure the wax cartrige was submerged in coolant first instead of waiting for steam from an air pocket to do it. I had a good drop in average temperature afterwards.
never did the gaskets yet but will soon since my right cylinder head has to be removed.

[retorq]

Those plastic based reusable FelPro intake gaskets can NOT be put in backwards, not only that, they are completely symetrical so if you swap sides everything lines up perfectly.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mrg-136g_w.jpg

You more then likely didn't hook up the bypass line to the water pump right.

[SunlitComet]

When i went back to look at gaskets again and I did find something odd some have small holes between the intake ports where other are large squarish cut outs instead of small holes. I think I am going to call the manufactures and ask about this.

---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

On eof the ones show by felpro is the one below with square cut outs so why the difference between this one and the one above?

http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/fel/ms90131-2_top.jpg

[BattelWagün]

Sunlitcomet: you were right! I put the shrouds on and did mixed driving/idling for a good 20 mins and it never even got up to 210 (t-stat is still out) It did however get to about 160 ish, keep in mind though it's 89ºF here. So do you think I should go ahead and flush it again, put in the new t-stat (i got 195º, same as stock) and then fill with coolant? I have 5 gallons of autozones shit-cool stuff, I suppose it'll do fine with that.

as for the gaskets, you're right too, some have cutouts for ports which aren't on our vortecs. I believe it's so one gasket can be used for multiple engines. When I had my intake off, I actually noticed that those cutouts are on the block, but they are plugged.

[SunlitComet]

Just put the 195 degree stat back in after getting the level to the top in the manifold opening for the stat. bleed out best you can and try again. with it all back together. If it is the problem at least you would have not had to take it all apart again. If the coolant you just put in is still clean I would forget another flush right now. It usally take two complete hto/cold engine cycles for the sytem to bleed it self. On first cold start make sure your reservoir is at at or above hot mark. So as not to suck in air when it cools for first time. Second cycle cold engine jet make sure it is at the cold mark this time. If all go well you may only need minor reservoir adjustment for another cycle or so and be back to normal. Don't forget heater valve open till you are done.

See what happens.

I am gonna have to clarify this gasket difference before I start mine because I am getting a whole engine set so I i can do oil filter cooler mount and have some other if I need them later. That would be A $100 plus error for me.

[retorq]

The gaskets I posted are old school non Vortec/non crossover gaskets. I used it cause you can easily see they are symmetrical ... the large square cutout in the middle is the crossover, older heads had provisions the vortecs they are "there" but not machined.

If you look at this pic:

http://image.camaroperformers.com/f/8195227+w750+st0/09_s+third_gen_chevy_camaro+scog.jpg

You can see that the cutout is in the gasket but they(FelPro) actually has a blank that goes in there to block it if it's not needed or going to be used ...

On eof the ones show by felpro is the one below with square cut outs so why the difference between this one and the one above?

After market heads and intakes use different sized water ports, you wouldn't seal up right if your head had big openings and you used the smaller opening gasket ... if that makes sense.

Sorry for the confusion. :p

[SunlitComet]

Still out there a little. So for my '96 vortec I need which one? the first one you posted or the one I posted because when I look at a replacement manifold I only see 2 square cut outs in the center of each side and the gasket has three squares Or Am i going to have to tear it down first. Kinda wanted to get everything on hand first.

[retorq]

Still out there a little. So for my '96 vortec I need which one? the first one you posted or the one I posted because when I look at a replacement manifold I only see 2 square cut outs in the center of each side and the gasket has three squares Or Am i going to have to tear it down first. Kinda wanted to get everything on hand first.

The one you posted are the better option. I ran those on my Vortec headed old school small block Camaro and I run them on my Vortec headed TBI Tahoe. The three big holes you are referring too go absolutely no where ... they don't do anything.

http://image.superchevy.com/f/10742766+w750+st0/sucp_0302_14_z+vortec_cylinder_heads+intake_gasket .jpg

That is a closer up shot of a reusable gasket on a Vortec head ...

[BattelWagün]

I wish my heads looked like that!

Yup, they're all right. Our vortecs have 6 ports on each side. The three in the middle aren't there so it doesn't really matter what gaskets you use as far as that goes.

[SunlitComet]

The set here (http://www.amazon.com/Fel-Pro-HST7733PT16-Gasket-Head-Set/dp/B001C98GAO/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1309483709&sr=1-1) I am getting has the one with two small holes but I should still be good right?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PJhMIyDQL._SS500_.jpg

Just don't want screw it up. I need to get this SUV on the road and get back to work. Of course I won't know the extent of damage to the engine until I get it apart. My head and manifold bolts will be replaced to per the service manual. I hope for me it was a head gasket that popped.

[BattelWagün]

Don't worry you'll be fine, those are exactly the same as the ones I installed. They will work just fine. That's a pretty extensive kit! Reminds me I never replaced my EGR gasket...


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[retorq]

That kit looks good to me. Stock rebuild or are you hopping it up??

[BattelWagün]

I'd highly suggest it, you'll be in there anyways!

[SunlitComet]

A day after a put on a k&n fipk 57-3013-2 (http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=57-3013-2), I went to go find a long road near a dealer lot to record some short runs on my laptop. My helper started the data recorder and I floored it. Before we reach the half way point it started knocking. When I came to a stop I had misfire's happening. Further testing revealed high misfire rates on 4 and 6. Compression testing revealed about 2-3 psi in each. a few days later For about 5 minutes there was white and blue smoke. It has not done it since but the misfiring is still there. I boroscoped it and removed the valve cover for a upper valvetrain inspection. Nothing was broken on top and the valves have regular activity. The boroscope showed a black shiny film on piston top and spark plug for number 4 an not anything on 6. As far as I can tell the are intact but one is dirty with the same film. I still see crosshatching on the walls which gave me the thought that someone has touch this engine once already and goofed something but I cannot confirm that yet. There is still no obvious evidence of fluid cross contamination. I had also just finished flushing out my cooling system. At this time I believe that during the first run that a combination of chamber pressure and perhaps a leaking valve seal got to be to much and pushed the head gasket towards number 6. I will be tearing the top end down next week for inspection and repairs. I will actually take both heads off get them inspected and put on a new gasket set with new head and manifold bolts. I would like to think it is just miles and age. However besides tarnishing inside valve cover and the junk I cleaned out during the spider upgrade the engine head looks clean of deposits other then just varnish. I will know next week for sure when I can see it with my own eyes and not thru a camera. I was two ball joints away form being back on the road.
http://www.knfilters.com/images/m/57-3013-2.jpg

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

I'd highly suggest it, you'll be in there anyways!

I would like to do something but don't know what is street legal for califonia and not sure if I could swing it any way. Thought I saw something for 1.52 rockers from compcams that was legal for about $180 but I thought the 350 already had that ratio. There were claiming about 10-20 hp.

[retorq]

If you are going to hop it up any I would suggest the FelPro 1003 head gasket. It has some holes smaller in one area and bigger in another, basically lets more coolant thru the center of the head where the two exhaust port are close to each other and restricts flow on the upper/outter areas where you don't need as much ... I also thought my engine was rebuilt at one time, I'm not so sure though .. when I pulled my top end I could see cross hatch pattern still too.

[SunlitComet]

I see those at oreily's. It is listed as high performance engine only and federal mogul site will not list is as an option for the truck so I will probably stick wit the kit I listed above. I am sure the sever duty perma-torques will be good enough. What else could I do on the top that would be legal.


Battlewagun, your Tahoe chill out yet?

[BattelWagün]

Yeah its chilled now. I spent a good two days trying to figure it out and anded up realizing that my gauge cluster is bad... :chicken:

At first I definitely had air in there but I got it professionally flushed and it still was 'overheating' so I actually measured the temp ant multiple points on the engine and it was a constant ~200º (a scanner hooked up to the computer was saying a constant 194º)

[SunlitComet]

Good to hear.

[BattelWagün]

Thanks! :Handshake: I bought an autometer temp gauge to install, just dont know where to put it yet....

Now I have a new issue though....
It seems like when the motor is under load(ie-wheels at full lock and backing into my garage which is uphill slightly) it sputters and I hear puffing noise like an old locomotive chugging. Everytime it makes that noise, the motor basically loses power for a split second. It also happens when Im at a full stop in drive, with the a/c on. EGR gasket maybe? Im clueless now

[SunlitComet]

Maybe dirty or sticky IAC. It play a part in all that but it does sound like it's working to respond to changes. Perhaps the passages are dirty. go ahead and clean the egr valve if you have never done it before.

Btw, Gauge pod on the pillar for the meter. Get a three pod unit so you can justify the need to buy two more .

---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

You used the temp sensor that came with new meter right?

[BattelWagün]

You see, I wanted to clean the IAC, but the port it was in is very tiny and awkwards, and the sensor itself looked too sensitive. Illl go ahead and clean that and the EGR, and replace the EGR gasket today.

You're right about the pod, I wouldnt mind a trans temp and an intake vacuum gauge :cool:

as for the temp sender with the new gauge, i really dont wanna use the new sender because:
1- I'm not sure if the dapters it came with will fit the block
2- I just flushed my coolant
3- i'm quite neurotic now about air pockets and my engine overheating after the last two weeks...

I got me a nice gauge too! http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3571&sid=61

[SunlitComet]

Mechanical huh. Thought you might have gone for an electric gauge instead. Concerned how a electrical sender is going to work with a mechanical gauge though;)

I just wanted to make sure the original sender electric specs line of with The new meter for an accurate reading.

You will get over the neurotics. If you are worried about opening up again just top it off like I mentioned before and the system will take care of the rest without incident.

[BattelWagün]

Mechanical huh. Thought you might have gone for an electric gauge instead. Concerned how a electrical sender is going to work with a mechanical gauge though;)

I just wanted to make sure the original sender electric specs line of with The new meter for an accurate reading.



Wait, I thought the autometer was the same as the dash gauge? They both have a brass sender with only 1 wire, not a 2 wire plug like an electrical unit....

As for the specs, I'm going to wire it up with my stock sender and then compare that reading to either my infra-red temp meter that I have, or what the computer is saying and see how close it is. If I have to change it I will.

[SunlitComet]

Whoa, If you are talking about the two wire temp gauge that just happens to be in front of the thermo housing, that is the temp sender for the computer the one for the dash is on the left side cylinder head with one wire above the above the spark plugs. The two wire sensor are mainly for the computers use.

the gauge you posted was for a mechanical type unit that uses capillary tubing not electrical sensor like we have in the dash now. Perhaps you just got the wrong link?

Thermometer electric gauges like one in dash use a one wire unit. But they may have temperature to resistance differences from one type of sensor to another. For example/ GM sensor Might be 0-90 from 100-260 degrees where a ford sensor might go 50-100 ohms for same temp range. Autometer would specify what the range is of the one they include. Just want it to go right the first time for you. As I said the link you posted was for a mechanical unit that does not require electricity to run(except for a back light. Sorry if I have confused you.

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

Just noticed that the electrical gauge equivalent you posted does actually uses a two wire sensor so you may just be better off running new wire pair to the cylinder head..
http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3581&sid=61

[BattelWagün]

oopsy, I posted the wrong link haha...
here it is: http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3113&sid=11
It's a short sweep electric gauge with a 1 wire sender, I got it because it had the same type of sensor as my stocker. I may try to install it today, unless my inner pyro comes out of course... :shocked:

[SunlitComet]

Cool, thought you would gone for this (http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3785&sid=11)one. It does have a two wire sender but has programmable warning and memory to keep the paranoia down.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

It flashes and could even trigger some relays for extra fans if you wanted.

[BattelWagün]

You know, now that you show that to me I may have to change my choice of gauges. I've also decided on a three gauge pillar mount. I'm thinking water temp, intake vacuum, and either trans temp or fuel ratio...

Also, I'm wondering if that sender I bought just isn't the right one. The gauge reads consistently now that I'm closely observing it. It'll go to 240 and then fluctuate as the thermostat operates. It's almost as if it is just shifted to the right. I'm gonna get an ac deco sender and see what happens...


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[SunlitComet]

I want tranny temp, water temp, coolant pressure(yeah you read that right) power steering temp, tranny line pressure, fuel pressure, vacuum, A/F ratio for each bank, Volt and ammeter for 2 each batteries and for alternator, oil temp, indoor /outdoor temp.

---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

for now just using a Scangauge II Which I understand can be piggybacked with each other but you can not add inputs to it. Reads directly of the diag connector. Thought about stacking a few together. But also limited on what is available from pcm.

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------

Although all the gauges in autometer form would be good too. The issue I have with it is I need some of the faceplate names changed like for coolant pressure or PS temp, trans press..etc.

[BattelWagün]

Yeah I know exactly what you mean, I wish I had a place to mount a dozen gauges because frankly, If I had an intake vacuum, water pressure, and a good water temp gauge I guarantee you I would've seen those gaskets going way sooner... I've been looking across the interwebz and I found banks makes a nice 3 gauge pillar pod, and I found a nice 3 gauge dash pod (not hoe specific, but i think it would work...). And I'll tell ya, I'm gettin' idears here :shocked:

I want to fix the coolant gauge in my cluster so I dont need to waste space with that, then:
1)vacuum(this one will satisfy my immaturity), coolant press, and EGT/ fuel trim on dash
2)Oil temp, tranny temp, and fuel pressure maybe?

thats just A LOT of work haha

However, I can COMPLETELY justify all of this because abnormalities in all of these gauge readings would tell me quite a bit about what is wrong with her, should something go wrong...

[SunlitComet]

That is the idea. A little chime-for a warning here or there. If several go at once- maybe a beeping alarm. Engine stalls while at high vehicle speed-a nice big Klaxon alarm and blinking red "warning" light.

I could make an aircraft type master-alarm circuit. That would be cool. But that probably means changing the instrumentation system to a data acquisition type system. Could easily go past a grand in cost. I don't have the money too. I got to get this monster fixed so I can work again.

[BattelWagün]

Yeah getting her running would definitely be your best choice right now! haha

but I think I just may go that route, with many gauges... many, many gauges... :)
then I shall rename it the spaceship!

Am I really really gonna have to pay upwards of 50 bucks for a pillar pod?! comeon man...

[SunlitComet]

autometer has the triple hole pillar one too for about $57 at jegs. Cheaper with less pod openings.

[BattelWagün]

Alright I guess I'll just have to fork up the dough then... I found one for about 30 bucks from a company called 'GlowShift' but seeing as it's $20-$30 cheaper than everyone else, I'm kinda worried about quality issues. I dont want a piece of crap on my a-pillar in front of my face haha.

as for wiring, I would just use an add a circiut and wire the gauges lights into the dimmer circiut, right?

[SunlitComet]

one for ignition power on, one wire for illumination, ground and whatever the sensor uses. A good circuit in the truck can handle each type of wire for three gauges.

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

need a recommendation for the power and lighting circuits?

[BattelWagün]

[/COLOR]need a recommendation for the power and lighting circuits?


That would be much appreciated!

[SunlitComet]

try fuse #4 for ignition on control and #14 for illumination control. would not add more than three gauges on these circuits for now. But you could always add a relayed setup for more later.

[BattelWagün]

Okay thats fine then, I want to definitely put in a triple gauge A-pillar with vacuum, trans temp, and oil temp or water press. I think the vacuum gauge is mecanincal, but I'd still have to wire up the light for it.

[SunlitComet]

correct.

[BattelWagün]

Eeeexcelenttt *mr burns voice*

Well I should be getting a little extra $$$ from a brake Job I'm doing this week, then I'll order everything up and install (possibly make a how to for each gauge too...)

[crows feet]

your intake gaskets are on wrong..take it from me replaced every thing thermo water pump new hoses new raditor because i had so much trust in guy that put them on he just made a big bo bo get another set from dealer not much diff in price use your vin make sure got right ones will work,,,,,or they are on backwards or upside down read paper work from your pack save your self time and worry that is the problem

[BattelWagün]

Actually as I've said earlier in the thread, I've solved the problem. My gauge cluster went bad.

[retorq]

your intake gaskets are on wrong..take it from me replaced every thing thermo water pump new hoses new raditor because i had so much trust in guy that put them on he just made a big bo bo get another set from dealer not much diff in price use your vin make sure got right ones will work,,,,,or they are on backwards or upside down read paper work from your pack save your self time and worry that is the problem

Did you look at the pics and read what others posted?? There is no "backwards" on Vortecs and upside down would just be silly ...

[AtomicHoe094]

you never know! lol im sure theres tons of people who fugged that one up