Post SSBC Brake Upgrade - Few Questions

So... I went the route of installing SSBC three piston calipers and 14in slotted rotors on the front and rear of my LTZ Suburban with stainless lines on the front. Install was a breeze so now for my concerns...

The overall feel of the braking system is not as good as the stock setup was. The pedal feels softer and it seems like more pedal travel is required to achieve the same result. Also, there is a shudder under normal stopping/slowing conditions. I bedded the brakes properly, etc. but something just doesn't feel right given this upgrade. I've done big brake kit upgrades on many vehicles and never had this result. I'm trying to figure out what to do to trouble-shoot now and clearly calling SSBC to discuss was a waste of time. The tech rep. I talked to was a complete ass to me. He interrupted me and said that I should not have bedded the brakes but rather drove easy on them for 200 miles or so (contrary to my belief as well as their install manual as well).

Anyhow, enough with my ranting. What do you guys think?

WingsAA said:

So... I went the route of installing SSBC three piston calipers and 14in slotted rotors on the front and rear of my LTZ Suburban with stainless lines on the front. Install was a breeze so now for my concerns...

The overall feel of the braking system is not as good as the stock setup was. The pedal feels softer and it seems like more pedal travel is required to achieve the same result. Also, there is a shudder under normal stopping/slowing conditions. I bedded the brakes properly, etc. but something just doesn't feel right given this upgrade. I've done big brake kit upgrades on many vehicles and never had this result. I'm trying to figure out what to do to trouble-shoot now and clearly calling SSBC to discuss was a waste of time. The tech rep. I talked to was a complete ass to me. He interrupted me and said that I should not have bedded the brakes but rather drove easy on them for 200 miles or so (contrary to my belief as well as their install manual as well).

Anyhow, enough with my ranting. What do you guys think?

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I saw three piston and stopped there. If you have an increase in necessary push on the brake pedal, you might want to change calipers to 4 or 6 piston

stevek said:

I saw three piston and stopped there. If you have an increase in necessary push on the brake pedal, you might want to change calipers to 4 or 6 piston

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Not sure I understand. The stock setup is two piston in front and one in rear. The SSBC kit is three in front and three in rear. That combined with SS lines and larger rotor should produce a better feel. Can you elaborate a bit since I already technically upgraded the number of pistons per caliper?

Have you tried re bleeding the brakes?

Conor said:

Have you tried re bleeding the brakes?

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That's the next on my list. I am going to flush it again since I have some ATE Super Blue that needs to get used. I think the pads that come with the SSBC kits may be crap as well. I'm going to keep trouble shooting and if I have to swap in some Hawk performance or EBC pads and see what diff. that makes.

I swapped to the same setup about three yrs ago, but only in the front since my truck came stock with 2 pistons in the rear. HUGE improvement over the stock setup. I had a soft squishy pedal at first. Had to re-bleed 3x. I finally flushed the entire system and the brakes have been very impressive since. As a matter of fact, the other day I had an old friend stop by and gave him a ride in truck for the first time. He was very impressed with the truck's stopping power.
Sounds like you may still have some air trapped in the system somewhere.

JKmotorsports said:

I swapped to the same setup about three yrs ago, but only in the front since my truck came stock with 2 pistons in the rear. HUGE improvement over the stock setup. I had a soft squishy pedal at first. Had to re-bleed 3x. I finally flushed the entire system and the brakes have been very impressive since. As a matter of fact, the other day I had an old friend stop by and gave him a ride in truck for the first time. He was very impressed with the truck's stopping power.

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That's encouraging. I'm hoping these get better. Bleeding tomorrow as a start.

Bleeding should have been the first thing you did after install. You gotta think there wasn't any brake fluid in the lines/ calipers before you installed it.

allando said:

Bleeding should have been the first thing you did after install. You gotta think there wasn't any brake fluid in the lines/ calipers before you installed it.

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They already have been bled once. I'll be doing it again tomorrow is what I meant.

Oh, maybe there's still air then haha.

i had the same problem after my 4 wheel SSBC install. The pedal was soft for a day even after hours of bleeding. The system will self bleed per the tech at SSBC and the tech I talked to at GM. My pedal had more response after a day or two. Now, I can stop on a dime.

Sounds like the soft pedal should be addressed by additional bleeding. However, the shudder during normal breaking is a little concerning. Does it feel like the ABS is kicking in? With this kit, was there a requirement to adust any brake proportioning? With the same size rotors and caliper pistons front and rear, IMO the braking force is not balanced.

There is also a way for GM to bleed your abs pump by commanding it to open via a TECH2..it definetly sounds like you have some air in there, I have their 14in. rotors with Hawk ceramic pads on my tahoe and stopping is way better than stock...even with 33" tires.

I dont know if you have found a fix to this yet, but i'll give you my 2 cents from helping design a braking system for a mini baja car.

I dont know the exact piston size specs, but i'll make a few assumptions. since you're upgrading from a 2 piston system to a 3 piston system, you are essentially increasing the volume of the piston areas by 1.5 (assuming similar piston sizes), thus requiring more fluid to get the same amount of brake travel. Combine this with the fact that increasing fluid pressure area on the brake piston side while maintaining a constant master cylinder piston area (assuming you dont change master cylinder), you have an increase in your pressure force output vs. pressure force input ratio (example below).
These two effects combined can create a soft feeling in your brakes. you have to move the pedal further to account for the increase in volume on the brake pistons, and the increase in force ratio requires less force to create similar stopping power required for braking.

Simple Brake force calculations: Force/Area = Pressure
Foot Force into Pedal/Area of master cylinder piston = line pressure
Line Pressure * Combined Area of Brake Caliper Pistons = Braking force on Rotor
Braking Force on Rotor * Rotor Radius = Stopping Torque
Stopping Torque/Time = Stopping Power (HP)

there's some unit conversions involved. but basically, your increasing the combined area of brake caliper, thus increasing braking force. to modulate similar braking force (i.e. stopping similar to before), it requires less pedal force input.

Knock on wood... everything seems to be okay now.
I think they got bedded in too hard initially. After driving on them for some time now the pulsing is gone and the wear pattern/color looks much better. Pedal feel is fine and stopping is fine now as well. I took a trip out to Colorado from Ohio a few weeks back with no issues.